23 Replies Latest reply on Oct 15, 2016 12:14 AM by Elmar Klammer

    Circular Pattern - dynamic

    Pedro García

      Hello everyone,

      I need to do a  Circular Pattern with curvature continuous, after that extrude the sketch with draft,

      some cases is better to use Circular Pattern with 3d features, but i am curious, i

      I would like to know what is the problem in this situation:

       

      i want rotation/copy the style spline (curvature continuous) and make this automatic/dynamic changeable for the three sides

      (when i move the one side, all others move togeter).

       

      The Circular Pattern problem.jpg

      but when i do the  Circular Pattern the final points do not merge:

      The Circular Pattern problem 02.jpgThe Circular Pattern problem 03.jpg

      and when i trie merge them become over defined:

      The Circular Pattern problem 04.jpg

      is that a solidworks problem?

       

        • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
          Rob Edwards

          Hi Pedro, I get curious too:)

           

          I ran into something similar the other day with a circular pattern of arcs and conics, my solution was to pattern the control points and then trace over them in a separate sketch.  I guess its possible in one sketch but way too confusing  I did pattern the head round to the tail if that makes sense.  I picked up a tangent relationship that overdefined the sketch, because we were already tangent, but when I deleted it was OK.  I knew what I wanted to do but it was a bit tricky to get right, my Sketch1 is actually Sketch15.  I couldn't open your part because im still on 2015.  I dont know about constant curvature, and there's probably a better way but it seems to work ok

           

          • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
            Rob Edwards

            Had another go

             

            Just 2 sketches this time

            • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
              Peter Brinkhuis

              I still have trouble understanding your problem, might be caused by my very limited experience with splines.

               

              I do know rotational patterns in SolidWorks though, they can cause a real mess.Getting overdefined for no obvious reason happened to me multiple times, which caused me to minimize my use of rotational patterns in sketches. I use the rotational pattern of features whenever I can, that feature is stable.

              • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                Glenn Schroeder

                I'm also not sure what you're trying to do and don't have time to look at your model, but from the screenshots it looks like it's a pattern of 3.  Is there any chance you could create 1/3 of the feature or body with the sketch, then do the circular pattern?  I think you'll be much happier with the results.

                • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                  Rob Edwards

                  There's definitely something not quite right though.  I could extrude a solid by selecting the region, but the contour was still classed as open so I couldn't make a planar surface.  It let me do a thin extrude but then there were some flats.

                  When I did a straight extrude, I could then use the model edges to extrude thin, but not directly off the sketch

                  • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                    Pedro García

                    thank you guys,

                     

                    I converted 1/3 and maded a circular pattern like Rob Edwards sad and worked more or less well, but i dont undestand why but when i move the splines from the main 1/3, the other pieces break the curvature continuous... so that way do not become dynamic...

                    10.jpg

                      • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                        Rob Edwards

                        Yep it's tricky to do with a pattern, I didn't get to look at your model and I'm sure you've got a reason for using style splines, but is using normal splines an option? maybe drive them from two inverted triangles (or similar)  I've left the construction geometry but you could trim most of it away

                      • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                        Arthur McRae

                        I'm not sure of your circumstance but most of the time I've found the way around this was to make a single feature then to do the pattern on the feature.

                        • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                          Rob Edwards

                          Another post on this forum just got me thinking...

                           

                          If you make a new sketch select the sketch, convert entities and fit spline you can remove all the tangent faces

                          • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                            Paul Salvador

                            yeah, it will not do it..  my workaround in the past and now.. to pattern sketches with splines like this is multi step process,.. either use the existing sketch or another and extrude a surface.. pattern the surface,.. copy edges (you can knit as well if need)... extrude.

                            curvpatt.png

                            • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                              John Stoltzfus

                              Not sure why - but I have noticed similar sketches becoming over defined when either using the mirror feature or circular pattern as you show, and I found what works is delete one or two of the "Red" relations and it should clear, seems that it's trying to lock down the vertex's from all directions when only a few is needed.. 

                               

                               

                              • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                Pedro García

                                11.jpg

                                Thank you guys,

                                making 1/3 Paul Salvador and extrude a surface, after that convert into sketch become dynamic, but this looks like a quick fix than

                                a right way, for me circular circular pattern and splines have some bug, because is no reason to become overdefined or do not merge, becouse if you do this using arcs or lines works fine, but when you need use splines for evything we have some problem making a simple thing become a trouble.

                                • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                  Elmar Klammer

                                  Hi Pedro,

                                   

                                  Looking at your sketch it seems unlikely that you will adjust the sketch pattern count of 3. Sketch patterns are unreliable to begin with. Always been like that. In your case I would use symmetry instead. I used convert geometry and split the spline at the symmetry line. The rest of the sketch is simply rotation symmetric.

                                  SW uses different algorithm and curve tolerance for converted geometry and often makes them easier to work with.

                                   

                                  I find that working with Solidworks feels like playing a pin ball machine, except your point count doesn't go up only because you keep hitting your head in the same spot over and over again. Learn to be flexible and try to move forward. That's your power to use. Software comes with bugs. That's life. I believe that SW does some pretty amazing stuff and yes it comes with bugs. I have been quite critical myself. Learning to use SW is knowing how to use it just like it is knowing how not to use it while seeing things realistic. Being resourceful is the key. I see Paul has weighed in on this post. His surface skills are quite something. And I would even go as far as to say that some of his exception skills are in part related to SW's limitations and how he looks for solutions.

                                  In general I would say nowadays society focuses too much on having things "easy". That's an over simplistic view on nature in general and causes problems rather then solutions.

                                   

                                  in a nutshell, using SW efficiently is only one important skill to have, not going crazy while doing so, is simply another equal important aspect.

                                    • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                      John Stoltzfus

                                      Well said Elmar Klammer

                                       

                                      Being resourceful is the key. I see Paul has weighed in on this post. His surface skills are quite something. And I would even go as far as to say that some of his exception skills are in part related to SW's limitations and how he looks for solutions.

                                       

                                      In general I would say nowadays society focuses too much on having things "easy". That's an over simplistic view on nature in general and causes problems rather then solutions.

                                       

                                      in a nutshell, using SW efficiently is only one important skill to have, not going crazy while doing so, is simply another equal important aspect.

                                       

                                      How often did we hear of some "New" feature or "New" tool and we want to incorporate that right into our workflow, everything works nicely till your asked to go over the design limitations and your house of cards just flutters down.......

                                      • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                        Paul Salvador

                                        Elmar,.. maybe,.. I personally think Pro/e and some of my earlier 3D modeling exposure helped me with many workarounds/techiques.. and workarounds within SW do inherently bring about more variable/critical/backdoor approaches over the years.

                                        My complaints are more about things being inconsistent.. or broken off/on,.. or not enough time spent on improving a feature.. which.. begs to be improved.

                                        You guys may think it's a asset.. but it's also frustrating..   when I loose 4-24hrs redoing a project which should NOT have failed.. but, I have to redo it... it's mind blowing.. and a huge lo$$.... that is,... IT IS, the TOOLS FAULT,.. imho.

                                          • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                            John Stoltzfus

                                            Can I add this...........

                                             

                                            When you find that work around and refuse to use the "New" tool or feature you get ridiculed, right.????....  It' no wonder we go back to where things are more stable...

                                              • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                                Paul Salvador

                                                ..yep,..  it's called the betaware cycle... wax on wax off.

                                                 

                                                btw,.. (since this is voting time in north america).. it reminds me of bills/bonds being added to the existing bills/bonds to fix our roads....  for unexplainable reason... every few years,.. we need new bills/bonds for on top of the old ones..............................?

                                                 

                                                ..

                                              • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                                Elmar Klammer

                                                I hear what you say. Unfortunately we have no way of controlling SW's side of things. The little control we have i.e. subscription fees don't make a lot of difference. Sure we can use another software package. But that too will come with bugs. The tools of the trade are somewhat pre-determined by our customer requirements or demands. I simply focus on the things I have control over.

                                                Everything else is wasted energy anyways. I'll try to bill these things into the quote if I can. Doesn't work always but it works often enough.

                                                 

                                                And remember, it is only few people that have the persistence to work through the frustrating parts.

                                                So if nothing else, bugs help you build stamina...and who doesn't like some good old fashioned boost in endurance.

                                                  • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                                    Paul Salvador

                                                    (that last line).. do you work for Ensure? 

                                                      • Re: Circular Pattern - dynamic
                                                        Elmar Klammer

                                                        Paul, you need to ask yourself if it help to have such high expectations in regards to software. I chose to see it from the other side. I expect the software to cause some issues. It's much easier to deal with it, if you ask me. But everyone is different. I stick to the basics, often go the extra steps that will take me guaranteed to the top. I know one thing, if I move along at 160 an hour but fall short on the last few inches...well in this case any snail will beat me to the finish line, guaranteed. I don't buy into the fluff, use my head and smarts instead of advertised promises that won't work.

                                                        To be honest I can see the adverse affects of too much automation all around me. I have seen so many technicians, engineers, managers and so forth that are mostly useless. Not be cause they can't, but because they taught them self to be helpless. Relying on software and programmers to replace personal effort and education, and it just doesn't work. So in all honesty, I think bugs are good in a way. Ying yang kinda story.

                                                        To criticize programmers on a regular basis, it's just no fun. The other thing is that I will be able to do what I need to do whether SW keeps selling new versions or not. So when things get screwy then it is what it is and no rant will change that....not to say I can't blow a fuse on occasion...but that can be entertaining too at times...anyways...I do enjoy your educational contributions and unleashed SW bashing

                                                         

                                                        Enjoy the weekend......