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Cost of upgrading PDM

Question asked by Thomas Voetmann on Oct 5, 2016
Latest reply on Oct 6, 2016 by Joy Garon

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Our company (8 seats - 400Gb vault data) is about to upgrade PDM from WorkgroupPDM to PDM Standard.

We asked our VAR for a cost estimate and this is what he came up with. Note this is chargeable work time spend not duration which probably is longer as some conversion takes place unsupervised.

Installation PCs: 1 day

Installation server: 1 day

Setup and test of conversion routine: 5 days

Setup PDM standard: 1 day

Conversion of data: 3 days

In total 11 days of payed work by an experienced expert charging a hefty salary !

Is this a reasonably time consumption?

Austin Broeker Oct 5, 2016 5:40 PM

Correct Answer

It seems a little high to me, but maybe they're just estimating on a "worst-case scenario" basis. I haven't been around for a full PDM migration, but I've been involved in several EPDM upgrades, and this seems like it could be done a little faster.

Client installation: This is easy. For 8 seats, it shouldn't take more than a few hours.

Server installation: This is a little trickier, but it also shouldn't take more than a couple hours.

Setting up and testing conversion: If your VAR rep knows what they are doing, I would think they should be able to complete this in 3 or 4 days (or less).

Setting up PDM standard: If they are referring to setting up the vault view, this shouldn't take more than a couple hours.

Conversion of data: I would expect this to take around 2 - 3 days, but it also depends on network speeds and how much data will actually be migrated.

Assuming everything goes relatively smooth, I would expect a realistic work time of about 6 - 8 days. I agree with Lee CS Young that client installation, server installation, and vault setup should all be able to be completed within one day. To help lessen the chance of it taking longer, check to make sure that your server hosts and clients meet the system requirements before your VAR rep gets there. We had to upgrade our servers during a PDM upgrade a couple years ago, and it took a size-able chunk of time to get that straightened out with our IT department.

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/PDMSystemRequirements.html

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Lee CS Young Oct 5, 2016 10:47 AM

A 400GB vault is a fair size. If you're bringing in all your file history I'd say that is a reasonable quote. If you can live with the latest revision only, go that route. You'll save yourself and your VAR some headaches.

The vault setup, server install and client installs can be done in one day concurrently. (Not 3.)

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Christian Chu Oct 5, 2016 10:57 AM

Give the job to VAR and you'll have trouble free; however, if you or anyone at work is capable of doing this job then it'd be another choice

I like to setting up by myself so I know the system better for any issue coming up later on

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Chris Champions @ Christian Chu on Oct 5, 2016 11:18 AM

Agree to your second choice if you can be able to commit time for it - shouldn't it be an issue?

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Christian Chu @ Chris Champions on Oct 5, 2016 11:22 AM

Not too bad if you'd already done in workgroup PDM and experienced some SQL server

and it's awesome opportunity to learn new thing

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Chris Saller Oct 5, 2016 11:09 AM

We also received a high quote for the change.

We decided to use the money and purchase EPDM next year.

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Chris Champions @ Chris Saller on Oct 5, 2016 11:18 AM

Well... the subscripiton will be added up over the years

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Austin Broeker Oct 5, 2016 5:40 PM

Client installation: This is easy. For 8 seats, it shouldn't take more than a few hours.

Server installation: This is a little trickier, but it also shouldn't take more than a couple hours.

Setting up and testing conversion: If your VAR rep knows what they are doing, I would think they should be able to complete this in 3 or 4 days (or less).

Setting up PDM standard: If they are referring to setting up the vault view, this shouldn't take more than a couple hours.

Conversion of data: I would expect this to take around 2 - 3 days, but it also depends on network speeds and how much data will actually be migrated.

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/PDMSystemRequirements.html

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Mike Pogue Oct 5, 2016 6:20 PM

Installation PCs is silly.

Installation server may require a little more skill, but is within the capability of any IT department.

Conversion of data is done by computers--not manually. I have no idea what that labor charge might represent. Maybe they can explain it, but they've already gigged you for setting it up. Are they gigging you for staring at their phones while the conversion runs?

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Anna Wood Oct 5, 2016 9:34 PM

How much are they charging an hour? 11 days at a $150-$200 an hour seems reasonable for a 400 gig vault. 15-20K to convert a vault, with a guarantee of it being correct seems pretty cheap. It is not a plug and play, one to one conversion. Every vault needs some custom tuning to the customer needs and how they use the vault.

How many hours did it take to create all that data over the years? How much did that cost? How much headache and cost if the conversion goes bad?

What is the saying about placing the X only costs $10, knowing where to place it $10,000.

Would be curious if you decide to go with a less expensive option (whatever that may be) that you report back here what your experience was good or bad. Would the less expensive option have been worth it if it all goes bad? How did the experience go with using your VAR is you decide to go that route?

FWIW....

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Thomas Voetmann Oct 6, 2016 1:03 AM

Thank you so much everyone.

I marked Austin Broeker as correct as this answer was the most in depth but all your answers are valuable to me.

@ Anna Wood. Thanks for the comparison with the cost of data creation. And I will tell my experience when we get to it. But we are still in a research phase.

@ Mike Pogue. I don't want to pay for my VAR to watch the grass grow while the computer does the work. But how can I know?

Anyway I am still puzzled. SW provides a tool to the VARs and if they have the experience in using it, it must be a crappy tool to require so much time. And if each VAR has say 100 PDM Workgroup users how can we make it in time for SW2018?

I'll go to management and let you all know.

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Joy Garon

Oct 6, 2016 5:47 AM

Hello All, As Lee Young noted, a 400GB vault is significant for a Workgroup vault. The actual conversion time might be light. It assumes a good quality vault. Some questions: how old are the oldest files in the vault? Do they go back to the time when the SOLIDWORKS file extensions were .prt, .asm and .drw? Have you ever changed the revision scheme you were using? Are you using lifecycles? Do you make extensive use of configurations? Each of these can add to the level of complexity. Working with an experienced VAR is the best way to mitigate potential issues. Regards, Joy

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11 Replies

Lee CS Young Oct 5, 2016 10:47 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
A 400GB vault is a fair size. If you're bringing in all your file history I'd say that is a reasonable quote. If you can live with the latest revision only, go that route. You'll save yourself and your VAR some headaches.

The vault setup, server install and client installs can be done in one day concurrently. (Not 3.)
Like • Show 2 Likes2
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Christian Chu Oct 5, 2016 10:57 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Give the job to VAR and you'll have trouble free; however, if you or anyone at work is capable of doing this job then it'd be another choice
I like to setting up by myself so I know the system better for any issue coming up later on
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
- Chris Champions @ Christian Chu on Oct 5, 2016 11:18 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Agree to your second choice if you can be able to commit time for it - shouldn't it be an issue?
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
  - Christian Chu @ Chris Champions on Oct 5, 2016 11:22 AM
    Mark Correct
    Correct Answer
    Not too bad if you'd already done in workgroup PDM and experienced some SQL server
    and it's awesome opportunity to learn new thing
    Like • Show 1 Like1
    Actions
Chris Saller Oct 5, 2016 11:09 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
We also received a high quote for the change.
We decided to use the money and purchase EPDM next year.
Like • Show 2 Likes2
Actions
- Chris Champions @ Chris Saller on Oct 5, 2016 11:18 AM
  Mark Correct
  Correct Answer
  Well... the subscripiton will be added up over the years
  Like • Show 1 Like1
  Actions
Austin Broeker Oct 5, 2016 5:40 PM
Unmark Correct
Correct Answer
It seems a little high to me, but maybe they're just estimating on a "worst-case scenario" basis. I haven't been around for a full PDM migration, but I've been involved in several EPDM upgrades, and this seems like it could be done a little faster.

Client installation: This is easy. For 8 seats, it shouldn't take more than a few hours.
Server installation: This is a little trickier, but it also shouldn't take more than a couple hours.
Setting up and testing conversion: If your VAR rep knows what they are doing, I would think they should be able to complete this in 3 or 4 days (or less).
Setting up PDM standard: If they are referring to setting up the vault view, this shouldn't take more than a couple hours.
Conversion of data: I would expect this to take around 2 - 3 days, but it also depends on network speeds and how much data will actually be migrated.

Assuming everything goes relatively smooth, I would expect a realistic work time of about 6 - 8 days. I agree with Lee CS Young that client installation, server installation, and vault setup should all be able to be completed within one day. To help lessen the chance of it taking longer, check to make sure that your server hosts and clients meet the system requirements before your VAR rep gets there. We had to upgrade our servers during a PDM upgrade a couple years ago, and it took a size-able chunk of time to get that straightened out with our IT department.

http://www.solidworks.com/sw/support/PDMSystemRequirements.html
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions
Mike Pogue Oct 5, 2016 6:20 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Installation PCs is silly.
Installation server may require a little more skill, but is within the capability of any IT department.
Conversion of data is done by computers--not manually. I have no idea what that labor charge might represent. Maybe they can explain it, but they've already gigged you for setting it up. Are they gigging you for staring at their phones while the conversion runs?
Like • Show 1 Like1
Actions
Anna Wood Oct 5, 2016 9:34 PM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
How much are they charging an hour? 11 days at a $150-$200 an hour seems reasonable for a 400 gig vault. 15-20K to convert a vault, with a guarantee of it being correct seems pretty cheap. It is not a plug and play, one to one conversion. Every vault needs some custom tuning to the customer needs and how they use the vault.

How many hours did it take to create all that data over the years? How much did that cost? How much headache and cost if the conversion goes bad?

What is the saying about placing the X only costs $10, knowing where to place it $10,000.

Would be curious if you decide to go with a less expensive option (whatever that may be) that you report back here what your experience was good or bad. Would the less expensive option have been worth it if it all goes bad? How did the experience go with using your VAR is you decide to go that route?

FWIW....
Like • Show 2 Likes2
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Thomas Voetmann Oct 6, 2016 1:03 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Thank you so much everyone.
I marked Austin Broeker as correct as this answer was the most in depth but all your answers are valuable to me.

@ Anna Wood. Thanks for the comparison with the cost of data creation. And I will tell my experience when we get to it. But we are still in a research phase.

@ Mike Pogue. I don't want to pay for my VAR to watch the grass grow while the computer does the work. But how can I know?

Anyway I am still puzzled. SW provides a tool to the VARs and if they have the experience in using it, it must be a crappy tool to require so much time. And if each VAR has say 100 PDM Workgroup users how can we make it in time for SW2018?

I'll go to management and let you all know.
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions
Joy Garon Oct 6, 2016 5:47 AM
Mark Correct
Correct Answer
Hello All, As Lee Young noted, a 400GB vault is significant for a Workgroup vault. The actual conversion time might be light. It assumes a good quality vault. Some questions: how old are the oldest files in the vault? Do they go back to the time when the SOLIDWORKS file extensions were .prt, .asm and .drw? Have you ever changed the revision scheme you were using? Are you using lifecycles? Do you make extensive use of configurations? Each of these can add to the level of complexity. Working with an experienced VAR is the best way to mitigate potential issues. Regards, Joy
Like • Show 0 Likes0
Actions

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