20 Replies Latest reply on Aug 1, 2008 4:40 PM by Robert Berry

    Dimensioning aligned section views

    Robert Berry
      Before I get to negative, does anyone know of a way or work around to dimension across a diameter in an aligned section view.

      The system will pick the line in the vertical section area but not in the angular part of the section.

      The VAR says this is yet another limitation of SW.

      As about 90% of what we make is round with diffrent hole patterns on each end, having the ability to make "aligned" or revolved sections you can actually dimension is key to the mission.

      Often times putting the section lines north to south or east to west is not the best way to section the part.

      This is what SW seems to require or all bets are off when dimensioning.

      I tried pysically putting sketch lines in as if it was a stepped section, picking a sketch line then hitting plain section and got a funky result. (This is what the reseller says to do if you have multip[le steps in the section.)

      Any help would be appreciated
        • Dimensioning aligned section views
          Kenneth Barrentine
          i can't quite see what you refer to.
          can you post an example or screen shot?
            • Dimensioning aligned section views
              Robert Berry
              Here's a jpeg of the problem.

              Basically SW will not allow any dimensions across the centerline because I assume it can't figure out the angle of the section.
                • Dimensioning aligned section views
                  Eddie Cyganik

                  Bob,

                  For the record, this was reported pre SW04.

                  So much for progress.

                  I agree that SW is confused about geometry revolved back into plane, even though the geometry is a silhouette edge of a circle.

                  Okay, ...Are you ready for the big "SolidWorkAround"?

                  Insert Model Items
                  • Dimensioning aligned section views
                    Charles Culp
                    Bob,

                    The way I would do the "workaround" would be to select the top edge, then use "convert entities" on it. (Select it, then go to Tools>Sketch Tools>Convert Entities). Then you can dimension from the bottom line to the converted line.

                    *Edit: Oh, I like Eddie's way better.
                      • Dimensioning aligned section views
                        Robert Berry
                        Thank you Gentlemen,

                        I was aware of one of those work arounds, but not the other.

                        I was semi hopefull I was missing something and miracles would be performed.

                        Unfortunately I lead the charge here to switch from Inventor to Solidworks and for issues a lot less dramatic than this.

                        Solidworks seems to be a better solid modeling package, and is more stable, I like the PDM, but for lack of a better word, detailing SUCKS.

                        We make production details to ISO and ASME standards for virtually every part we manufacture and it can be extremely difficult and cumbersome at times in Solidworks.

                        I have complained to the reseller, the customer portal and too whom ever would listen, with no results or explanation.

                        Eddie, your statement about this problem being acknowledged in 2004 speaks volumes to the arrogance, stupidity or just plain ignorance of Solidworks Corporate.

                        If anyone were to ask me for my opinion as to which system to buy I would have to recommend Inventor if they did alot of detailing.

                        Rant over!

                        I also have issues with sections that the reseller is stymied with and SW ignores.

                        I get one shot at creating a section and if I mess it up and delete the section I get this error message when I try to cut another section. "a section can not be created from multiple contours"

                        The reseller and I have not been able to find any other geometry in the file other than the base view, so the are no points, lines, or sketches left behind. The file appears to be "clean".

                        The reseller has been at my sight checked all of my hardware, software etc., he claims to have sent it to SW and there is no answer.

                        This message is prevalent on every machine in the company after a section is deleted (5) but no one has an answer why.

                        Have any of you people run across this problem?

                        Once again any help will be graetly appreciated

                        B. B.





                          • Dimensioning aligned section views
                            Brian Cayer
                            Eddie,

                            Is that a link in your post or is it an instruction?

                            It doesn't open and if its an instruction I don't get it.

                            Regards,
                              • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                Eddie Cyganik

                                Brian,

                                It's a joke. I called it a work around because Bob Berry coud not "create" a certain dimension, therefore, INSERT MODEL ITEMS .
                                  • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                    Robert Berry
                                    Eddie,

                                    I'll take the DUH! on this one.

                                    But you have to admit SW should be able to place any dim any time as other systems can.


                                    B. B.
                                      • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                        Robert Berry
                                        BTW Eddie,

                                        Since you brought it up.

                                        Why is it when I insert a model item by "selected feature" the first selection is fine, but the next selection chooses "entire model", even though I have "selected feature" flagged.

                                        So I continually have to go in and delete all the dimensions I don't need.

                                        After doing this a few times I found it easier to simply place dimensions as I don't need every dimension in every view every time.

                                        Is it another annoying SW guirk, or am I just plain stupid.

                                        B. B.
                                          • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                            Robert Berry
                                            Wait a minute I figured it out. (dripping sarcasm)

                                            When you insert model dimension by selected feature you get to choose one feature, if you choose two it defaults to the entire model.

                                            So you have to end the command and start again to pick the next feature and so on and so on.

                                            Let me see which is faster continually selecting the insert model dimension over and over again, or select smart dimension once and place the dimensions I want where I want them.

                                            I prefer the latter, but the crap software can't do it so your left with inserting all the model dimensions or one at at time.

                                            I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed but this seems a bit cumbersome, I find it easier most times to just place them.


                                            B. B.
                                    • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                      Robert Berry
                                      Charles,

                                      Sorry for any confusion.

                                      I can delete the section.

                                      It's when I try to put in another section after I have deleted the original one.

                                      That's when I get the error message.

                                      For instance, when you put in an aligned section and it skews off instead of going right to left. So I delete the view and try again.

                                      I get the error message when eatablishing the new section lines.

                                      This happens every time on every machine.

                                      B. B.
                                        • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                          Charles Culp
                                          Bob,

                                          Yes, I think I understand what you are saying, and I do not have an answer as to why you cannot create a new section view. What I'm trying to say is that there is no reason to delete it to begin with. Simply right click on the section line, and click "edit sketch". you can then constrain the section line to the hole you want. That way you know it is always going straight through the center. Even if you change the model.
                                            • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                              Robert Berry
                                              Charles,

                                              Thanks for your reply.

                                              My problem is not with editing the section, I know how to do that, constrain the section lines etc. etc..

                                              What I was refering to was an alignerd section with one section line at an angle by design.

                                              The section line you draw first determines whether the view comes of at an angle or horizontal to the original view.

                                              If it comes of at an angle you have to delete and redo, as I don't believe you can edit the order of entry of section lines.

                                              When you add holes to parts and parts to assemblys you don't always have the choice to edit. Sometimes you have to delete and redo a section.

                                              Your advice is appreciated and I will most definately experiment with editing sections, however sometimes this is not possible.

                                              Bottom line is I have 5 SW machines with issues and get a blank stare from SW and the VAR.

                                              The reason I brought it up here was after several months I called the VAR and was told SW had no idea what the problem was, but there was a problem. Nice.

                                              I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem.

                                              Don't scratch your head to much for a solution as I don't think it's operator error.

                                              Thanks again for your help
                                              B. B.






                                                • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                                  Eddie Cyganik

                                                  Bob,

                                                  I think that number one, we could help you immensely if you could post a part & drawing.

                                                  If you cannot create a dimension in certain situations but can insert model items, then that should settle that issue.

                                                  Creating Aligned Section Views is not dependent on the first line sketched but rather the selection of the lines. (Select angled line first, then verticle or horizontal.)

                                                  A complete redo is not necessary, when you start to project and notice it is wrong, hit the escape key, crtl select in proper order, then select Aligned Section and project again.

                                                  As far as not using Insert Model Items at all, (because thaey are a pain, well, I'd say; This is all we allow and we make drawings all day, every day and we are abel to pop out drawings right & left.

                                                  Please give an example where sometimes you cannot edit holes.

                                                  Once again, if you provide for images, parts, drawings, I believe we can solve or help out with mosy of your issues.
                                    • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                      Charles Culp
                                      Not quite sure why you can't delete a section view, but if you screw up don't delete it. Right click on it and select "Edit Sketch". Then edit the geometry as required, and select the line you want as your section line. Then click the checkmark in the confirmation corner, your section line should now be realigned.

                                      As for an explanation of Eddies post, let me reword it for him: Insert>Model Items... Which I wouldn't consider a work-around at all, but a good idea for importing dimensions like this directly from the model.
                                      • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                        Charles Culp
                                        Yes, Bob, I think we are seeing eye to eye now. I hardly use Insert>Model Items. Most people who do suggest inserting everything from the model, then just delete what you don't need. It's somewhat of a compromise between the two issues you mention in your last post.
                                          • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                            Robert Berry
                                            Charles,

                                            To me it's not a compromise.

                                            The insert model items sometimes double dimensions, puts dimensions where you don't want em and is generally unreliable in my estimation.

                                            We also section installation drawings for customers that require mounting and interface dimensions, these drawings require aligned sections and stepped sections for clarity.

                                            Turning on all of the model dimensions in an assy is insane.

                                            Selecting them one by one is an option, but the software should allow you to place them if you so desire which is a better option and faster than selecting model items one by one.

                                            Thanks for your response,
                                            B. B.





                                              • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                                Eddie Cyganik

                                                Bob,

                                                No more "Double Dims": Make sure you have "Eliminate Duplicates" selected.

                                                To turn on Model Items in an assembly drawing, use Selected Feature or selected Component or Assembly Only. I would think if you need to show customer interface dims that select by feature would be perfect.

                                                Note on Insert Model Items:
                                                Once you have selected a feature and selected the icon for insert model items, take your cursor to the graphics area and hover over a dimension. Note that the feed back is a mouse with left & right options; move dimensions & hide dimensions. Learning to use these tools will greatly increase you drafting performance.

                                                Note on Hide versus Delete:

                                                Dimensions that are deleted cannot be displayed or brought back unless the Import Model Items tool is used.

                                                Conversely, dimensions that are hidden can quickly be display in gray by using the Hide/show annotations tool. Simply select a gray dimension and it will be displayed.
                                                  • Dimensioning aligned section views
                                                    Robert Berry
                                                    Eddie,

                                                    Thanks for the lesson.

                                                    I think I need to bite the bullet and learn how to use model dimensions properly.

                                                    I understand what you are saying about aligned dimensions and the selection, I did not word it properly.

                                                    I'll give some of your suggestions a whirl and if I still have problems I will repost.

                                                    B. B.