9 Replies Latest reply on Jun 1, 2008 8:16 PM by Mauricio Martinez-Saez

    pallet design

      We have been using Solidworks but haven't really used COSMOS. We have a packaging engineer that wants to know if COSMOS will tell him when a pallet he would design would fail. Currently what he is doing is having a test pallet made, strap our product to it and run it around the plant on a towmotor on the roughest areas and see if it will break. He would like something not so time consuming. So, he could run many different versions and see what works best.
        • pallet design
          Troy Peterson
          I just tried CosmosExpress on a pine 2x4 and it would not do a calculation. It may be different for the full blown package.
          • pallet design
            Fernando Cuenca
            I think the best way to do this is using Cosmos Adv. Pro and run a Random Vibration study.
              • pallet design
                Gary Garrison
                Knowing what Adv Pro costs, do you really expect a company to buy it just to test pallet models if that isn't their industry focus?

                My managers laughed out loud when I asked about a CWAP upgrade (from Designer) and a second seat of SW to use while Cosmos is running after they saw the cost associated. The request was so we could run test on our actual products, not the transport pallets!
                  • pallet design
                    Fernando Cuenca

                    Gary Garrison wrote:

                     

                    Knowing what Adv Pro costs, do you really expect a company to buy it just to test pallet models if that isn't their industry focus?



                    My managers laughed out loud when I asked about a CWAP upgrade (from Designer) and a second seat of SW to use while Cosmos is running after they saw the cost associated. The request was so we could run test on our actual products, not the transport pallets!

                    He asked for a product that will do what they want to do and Cosmos Adv. Pro is the quickest way.

                    Now if manager's think that is too expensive, they can keep running it around.
                      • pallet design
                        Gary Garrison
                        I am not disagreeing with you. I recently went through trying to get an updated SW computer and that took nearly a year. My workstation was essentially unchanged since we bought it 3 years ago. They eventually ordered something other than what I asked for (even though mine was cheaper).

                        We looked into CWAP to test the actual products we make and when they saw the cost on the quote sheet I handed them they quite literally laughed out loud.

                        I am really starting to think that the Dilbert comics I get daily in email are made based on my career so far...
                          • pallet design
                            Vince Adams
                            Hi guys, I'll second the suggestion of Bill Mac and suggest that you don't need Adv Pro for this one. The tools in SW Ofc Premium (Motion and CW) will do the trick. While wood is a complex nonlinear property, you'll never know the properties well enough to try to capture them in a model. I'd break a few boards in bending over a controlled test (3 point bending probably best), log the min and avg force to break them then calculate an equivalent stress. Use this as your rough allowable in the studies Bill suggested. Otherwise, you'll have no idea when the results on the screen are telling you there's a problem.

                            Unlikely that you'll pull this off in Xpress unless you are pretty creative and run even more comparison tests. You should expect to use amplified gravity, not available in Xpress.

                            Good luck!

                            Vince
                            • pallet design
                              Mauricio Martinez-Saez
                              While the tool required is COSMOS Advanced Professional you may do something with the standard COSMOS Works but not with Xpress even if you model the complete pallet as a single part.

                              Maybe you need to valorate the cost of time and fuel as well as forklift usage for goin arround the plant droping the pallet... not to mention if the pallet is drop over a someone (perhaps the manager himself)...

                              The other solution is to get a pallet supplier that design the pallets for you... or someone that have COSMOS Advance Professional and do the analysis for you for some consulting fee :-)

                              We have the full COSMOS Advanced Professional package, (our management do not laught at all when they pay the invoice for our systems or every year for the maintenance of the service), so if you send me the model (properly modeled) and all the parameters for the simulation, I will see if I can do it when having some free time (without a charge, I do not want your manager to laugh again, neither to cry it the pallet fall in top of him), it will not be next day, since as mentioned I will need to get some "open" time, but I will do my best to do it (the only problem is that you will only be able to see the results on an eDrawing, or a very large printed report).

                              M. G. Martinez-Saez
                              Director of Engineering, R&D and New Product Development
                              Grupo IMSA
                              Monterrey, Mexico

                              (by the way I am the one authorizing the engineering department software and hardware system purchasings here :-) so have no problems....

                              SW 2008 sp 3.1 - CWAP
                      • pallet design
                        Bill McEachern
                        Cosmos can handle this but it takes a bit of thought:
                        1) you need to run a motion study to drive the fork lift around over some sort of bump field (I have doen this and it works but you need to be thinking to pull it off) and you need to approximate the flexibilities in the vehicle to some degree - I would not get all anal just get it in the ball park. Put some dummy mass that is in the bal bark and run the motion simulation withthe goal of gettting the accelerations for the load. When I did thsi sort of work on an outdoor rough terrain forklift had accelerations in the order of 1.4g. The indoor stuff would be higher.
                        2) With the accelerations you can apply equivalent loads to the pallet with some sort of factor to a ccount for what you don't know.
                        3) In cosmos you need to use orthotropic materials to account fo rthe nature of wood. Get a copy of hte wood hand book for properties.

                        Not a big deal to pull off - you could even optimize the nails you need.