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SW 07 with PDMWorks 08

Question asked by 1-5CPJZZ on Jan 3, 2008
Latest reply on Apr 8, 2008 by Ed Gebo

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Can anyone confirm that you can use SW 07 with SW Explorer/PDMWorks 2008. In the past we have always been able to use the old version of SW with the new version of PDMWorks but I dont want to set up a test vault just to try it.

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Joy Garon Jan 4, 2008 1:12 PM
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Per the Release Notes:

PDMWorks Workgroup
The PDMWorks Workgroup 2008 Add-In cannot be added in to SolidWorks 2007.

Regards,
Joy
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1-5CPJZZ @ Joy Garon on Jan 4, 2008 5:32 PM
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That really stinks. I now have to find a way to get SW and PDMWorks all updated and out to everyone on the same day. If anything goes wrong with either one I have to roll back everything. It was very nice being able to update PDMWorks one week make sure everything was kosher and then update SW the next week. I will miss that flexibility.

Maybe I will just find some weekend time while the Patriots are playing to come in and do some updates. That should be a better use of my time
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Joy Garon @ 1-5CPJZZ on Jan 4, 2008 5:58 PM
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Hi Joshua,

This release is a bit of an anomoly because of a compiler change (as I understand it) - thank MS).

Just an FYI... the Pats have a bye this week :-)

Do you use admin images to deploy the release?

Joy
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Glenn Wilkins @ 1-5CPJZZ on Jan 4, 2008 6:01 PM
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I don't know your set up but we created a copy of our PDMWorks installation and did a practice migration. We then loaded a workstation with 2008 and ran PDMWorks 2008 through the checkin/out process to make sure our lifecycle worked and all.

I would recommend doing the same.

Then we chose an upgrade day, had IT install PDMWorks '08 on the server the night before and that morning we had a group of us go around and do the install of SW on everyone's machines. It went very well and we were done in no time.

Then over the course of the following weekends we ran the conversion wizard on the vault and all is well.
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1-5CPJZZ @ Glenn Wilkins on Jan 8, 2008 12:43 PM
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Glen that is about the same process we will follow, I just like being able to do a vault update at a seperate time than the major SW update. One step at a time is my philosophy.

Joy, I will be using the admin image to deploy the release. I have it working and tested and everything seems good so far.
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Designer Designer Jan 14, 2008 2:42 AM
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Can we use pdmserver 2007 combine with sw 2008 ?
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Marc Gibeault @ Joy Garon on Feb 1, 2008 7:56 PM
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Does this mean that we won't be able to use SW2007 and SW2008 together?

In the past we always had to use two versions of SolidWorks at the same time because we continue the projects in the same version they were started in (opening a complex part in a new version almost always introduces rebuild errors that are very time-consuming to repair) and the new projects start in the current version of SolidWorks.

With this incompatibility between SW2007 and PDMWorks2008 everybody will have to stop using SW2007 alltogether and on all projects... at once!?

I must be missing something?

-Marc

Edit: Joy, please give us an answer on this; I have a lot of things on hold because of this. Thanks.
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Marc Gibeault @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 4, 2008 3:11 PM
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Editing a post doesn't bump up a thread so here it is...

Joy, please give us an answer on this; I have a lot of things on hold because of this. Thanks!
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Joy Garon @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 4, 2008 3:17 PM
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Hi Marc -

I thought the answer was clear:
Per the Release Notes:

The PDMWorks Workgroup 2008 Add-In cannot be added in to SolidWorks 2007.

So, you cannot use PDMWorks 2008 with SW 2007 - In the past you could do this, but, due to a compiler change, this is not possible in this release.

Joy
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Marc Gibeault Feb 4, 2008 4:23 PM
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Thanks for your answer Joy.
Maybe because English is not my language, but also because your answer doesn't comment my concern of how should we manage the upgrade.
It looks to me that we will have to create a new vault for PDMWorks 2008 and not convert our current vault so we can still continue to work on current projects with SW2007.
If so, can PDMWorks Server 2007 and PDMWorks Server 2008 be run on the same computer at the same time (having their own vaults)?
These problems arise from the problematic conversion of complex parts. Going from one version to the next always introduces rebuild errors that are very time-consuming to repair and we often end with a model that was not identical after the repairs (and that's not acceptable).

Regards,
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Joy Garon @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 4, 2008 7:04 PM
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Hi Marc -

Don't worry about your English I'm sure it is better than my French (even after 8 years of French catholic school :-) )

I understand your problem.
You definitely cannot have two vaults on the same machine.
However, I have never tried to run PDMWorks 2007 and PDMWorks 2008 on the same machine.
I don't think it will work though as it relies on a file in the Program Files\Common Files\SolidWorks Shared directory called the SwDocumentMgr.dll.

When you install 2008 (after installing 2007) this file will be updated. I don't think the files are compatible.

Like I said - I have not tried this myself. It is not a scenario we test, but, I do not think this combination will work.

Regards,
Joy
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Todd Scarpella @ Glenn Wilkins on Feb 5, 2008 7:44 PM
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Glenn,

I have tried to convert our vault before and was not successful. Do you convert the whole vault at once? Do you take ownership of all the files? Do you run it from the server the vault is on or from a users pc?

Thanks.
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Steve Ostrovsky Feb 5, 2008 11:31 PM
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I agree that this is a serious PDMWorks related issue that SolidWorks needs to address for the next release. Larger installs and complex assemblies are going to take a hit with this one. No one wants to be forced to upgrade, that's why we've been able to run 2 versions to allow users to work into the newer versions. Marc's got a great point. Larger installations where projects are at different stages - when do you upgrade?
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Marc Gibeault Feb 6, 2008 12:26 AM
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Yes Steve, that's right.
I think we will have to wait around october-november before we can install 2008.
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Phil Way @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 6, 2008 4:38 PM
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No one here has mentioned PDMWW Viewer. I have set up a test vault in 2008 sp2.1 and my client test machine can access fine. The client machine with eDrawings 2008 installed should be able to view drawings in the PDMWW Viewer with no problems as this would not conflict versions, however my eDrawings 2008 app can not open an eDwg in the vault (2007 sp4 or 2008 sp2.1). I have been in touch with my VAR and seeking support and mine is not an isolated case appearantly. My VAR is contacting SW for a solution. I can not move fwd with SW 2008 installs within my organization until this is fixed because all of our production uses the viewer and eDrawings. Has anyone here had this issue and found a fix?

With this past weeks expereince, I am not infavor of the Installation Manager. As the adminstrator, you lose control of the image. All my updgrades and pushes from 04 to 07 went great and I have never had as many issues as I do with the Installation Manager.

It appears Glenn has done a similar process without using image deployment nor the PDMWW Viewer. Glenn, if you read this, am I correct in that assessment?

Thank you
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Glenn Franck @ Joy Garon on Feb 13, 2008 7:08 PM
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Joy;

Okay....Like you said, it is documented "The PDMWorks Workgroup 2008 Add-In cannot be added in to SolidWorks 2007". I agree with Joshua that this causes major upgrade issues especially for those of us with a large install base (80 plus users). I too like to do a 2 stage upgrade for major releases. This approach has always worked well for previous releases.

The way this reads, the minute I upgrade the vault to 2008, all my SolidWorks 2007 clients are dead in the water. Not good!

With this in mind, I am surprised that the scenario of a PDMWorks vault running at 2007 and a client machine running SolidWorks 2008 with a PDMWorks 2007 client add-in has not been tested. Could you check to see if this is a supported configuration?

What is your recommendation for upgrading a large installation under the present parameters?

Thanks;

Glenn
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Joy Garon @ Glenn Franck on Feb 13, 2008 7:14 PM
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Glenn -

I think you misunderstood my reply. I have never tested running 'side-by-side' installs of PDMWorks 2007/PDMWorks 2008 clients on the same machine connecting to different vault machines.
It is not a tested (supported) configuration.

Joy
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Marc Gibeault Feb 13, 2008 7:46 PM
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Joy,
The more I think about this, this more I find it unacceptable.
There's no way we can start using one version without still using the one before. Most of our projects are about a year in the making and it's such a pain to convert a complex part from one version to the next, sometimes it's not even possible.
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Joy Garon @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 13, 2008 7:48 PM
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Hi Marc -

I'm sorry, but, there is nothing that I can do to change this.
This is a unique situation where a compiler change (mandated by Microsoft) caused a situation where the two versions are not compatible.

You can continue to use PDMWorks 2007 with SolidWorks 2007 or move to the 2008 combination.

Joy
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Marc Gibeault Feb 13, 2008 8:00 PM
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Hi Joy,
We can't do that. We need to be able to use the same version as our customer.
When some of them will migrate to 2008 I think we won't have other choice then to change from PDMWW to another PDM.
We'll then change our licences from Office Pro to plain SolidWorks as PDMWW is the only add-in we use that was worth paying for.
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Kevin Silbert @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 14, 2008 11:47 PM
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Couldn't you use PDMW 2008 (probably through SolidWorks Explorer) to check out the files you need, then open them in the local work area in SW 2007? I'm pretty sure you could then check them back in with 2008 while they remain in 2007 format. This obviously implies that you don't run the conversion wizard on the vault. Or maybe I'm missing something with this scenario...
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Marc Gibeault Feb 15, 2008 12:54 AM
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Hi Kevin,
Doesn't Explorer by itself refuses to submit files to the vault?
Yep - I just checked to be sure, SW files must be checked-in from the PDMW add-in in SW.
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Kevin Silbert @ Marc Gibeault on Feb 15, 2008 1:32 AM
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My ignorance was pretty obvious... There is no way to get a file into the vault without saving it in the current SW- Check In From Disc, even if it were possible with SW files, would remove all useful intelligence. Good luck- it seems you're stuck in a pretty hard place.
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Drew Degentesh Feb 22, 2008 7:11 PM
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I don't buy the compiler change issue. I mean, I'm sure Microsoft mandated some sort of upgrade, but I feel certain that if 3DS made it a priority for interoperability it would happen. And if 3DS were truly in tune with customer needs this would have been a priority. This is a really, really big deal.

When 3DS started out, they were such a refreshing change from PTC. Slowly but surely, they are sinking to PTC's level.
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Marc Gibeault @ Joy Garon on Feb 26, 2008 4:05 PM
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Joy Garon wrote:

Glenn -

I think you misunderstood my reply. I have never tested running 'side-by-side' installs of PDMWorks 2007/PDMWorks 2008 clients on the same machine connecting to different vault machines.

It is not a tested (supported) configuration.

Joy

Well Joy then please test this configuration!
Here we are, real customers with real problems, and you can't give a solution?
Or the other workaround; PDMWW 2007 with it's plug-in running with SW2008?
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SW 07 with PDMWorks 08

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