47 Replies Latest reply on Jun 6, 2018 5:02 AM by Gordon Rigg

    PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system

    Gordon Rigg

      I just had an interesting discussion with my VAR about migration from Workgroup PDM to PDM standard.

      Here are a few nuggets:

       

      It is not expected that users will implement PDM standard without help and training from the VAR. Cost approx £1500 per customer, £1000 for implementation and £500 for training.

      Almost all Workgrpoup PDM users installed it without any training, as I did. There is lots of useful info on how to do it on youtube etc, as its a mature product that hasn't changed much recently. As PDM standard is new there is little help from others with experience!

       

      Transferring data from Workgroup PDM to PDM standard is a very complex task and the tools for doing it will only be released to the VAR and not to users. The VAR has enough difficulty. They estimate three days to transfer my data. So I'm looking at £2500 plus £1000, for implementation, the training included in the £2500 - at least, if it goes well. Yes, if they cant get it to work by the third attempt (they are allowing for three attempts as that seems to be the norm...) then I will have to pay more.

       

      Workgroup PDM will not just stop having support, it will simply not work at all beyond 2018. ie any data you have in Workgrpoup PDM will not be accessible if you upgrade to 2018. or at least that is the plan so far.

       

      Workload on VARs to provide help to migrate data is high, and it is not advisable to wait and see or your data migration might be delayed and hence your implementation of 2018 might not be possible. Though it sounds to me like it is very sensible to let your VAR learn how to transfer the data efficiently with as many other customers as possible before you queue up for the service!

       

      Explaining to customers about this extra cost to transfer from one "included in the licence" product to another "included in the licence" product is proving very awkward and customers are not at all happy about the unexpected cost. I am not the first to feel I am held to ransom over access to my own data.

       

      My thoughts:

      I deeply regret implementing workgroup PDM, and locking my design data into a system that my VAR knew full well had limited lifespan when they were advising me to do it (not that they knew the resultant data migration costs would be so crazy).

      What do I get from PDM? (compared to windows file system)

      • Where used data, very useful at times.
      • Ability to refer to past versions, well sort of, looking at past versions without overwriting the latest is not so easy - well I used that 3 times in 2 years. I had the last 6 weeks available on std file system backups anyway, and an archive of previous SW versions.
      • Thank goodness I didn't spend time on any API stuff in workgroup as PDM standard doesn't have any of that.
      • Better file sharing and file locking - but my colleague retired so we are now only two users rather than three, so that advantage is pretty limited.
      • More hassle than I had before

       

      What advantage will PDM standard have over Workgroup PDM.

      Well, of course its newer, better technology. Its a much better system. It has a clear upgrade path to PDM pro (enterprise PDM) (which I need about as much as SAP).
      It seems as far a the user experience is concerned there is no advantage. Only a loss of API functionality. It is easier for the VAR and Solidworks to support as its the same (but limited) product as EPDM so they save cost and training and we pay to migrate our data or lose access to it.

       

      So my conclusion is to wait, surely there is no way users are going to take this costly hit to migrate.

      SW 2018 will arrive and users will not move to it until a migration path to PDM std from WPDM is provided at a sensible cost, or in a way they can implement themselves.

      Meanwhile, I will be looking to find out, not how to implement PDM std on my own, but how to extract my data back to a windows file system myself.

      I'm sure that can done for a lot less than the cost of the data migration.

        • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
          Joe McBurnie

          Hi Gordon. Have you considered any alternative solutions? Regards.

            • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
              David Sloop

              Why does Assault Systemes insist on doing this stuff to it's customers?

              What used to be one of the friendliest, most helpful, user-friendly companies, is now just another greedy corporation.

              • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                Gordon Rigg

                I hadn't considered any third party applications. I expect migration of data from WGPDM into a third party app would be not at all straight forward.

                But why should I invest in a 3rd party app when Solidworks provides a data management package in my license?

                (Well, yes, now I found out why )

                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                    Jeff Holliday

                    I do understand your concerns and I tend to agree with them. For our company it appears that the "pdm std" will result in a bit more minuses than plus's. The extra cost to migrate the vault data is going to be a major concern. I tend to think that there will be a partial answer to this at some point in the form of either price cuts for the VAR-conversions or 3rd party solutions being offered.

                     

                    SolidWorks Corp had promised that there would be fair warning announced before WPDM ceased to be supported and I think 2 years is pretty reasonable. If you had started to use WPDM very recently I would be a bit disappointed with your VAR for not warning you.

                     

                    The training costs for using PDM std" will depend on the anticipated complexity you will be expecting. It may well be that for basic use similar to WPDM that you may not need extensive training, at least for everyone in the company. There are also other training methods (I Get It, Solid Professor, etc) that may work for you.

                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                      Joe McBurnie

                      I would like to have a conversation offline about the possible options if you are interested. I PM you my details. Rgs

                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                    Gordon Rigg

                    Well here this post lingers, with nobody contradicting it.

                    If I have the wrong end of the stick, and this issue isn't a costly rip off for solidworks customers, then surely there should be a response from Solidworks?

                    But there isn't. So it looks like its the truth...

                    So I have a cad budget. We weren't looking for any extra functionality, so that budget doesn't contain any funds for anything extra.

                    Can someone from solidworks suggest how I approach my management for extra cash, to use a data management system with reduced functions (no API) please? And that I need that cash just to maintain access to our own intellectual property?

                      • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                        Brad Pizer

                        We are using Workgroup PDM with consideration to migrate to PDM Standard. We just upgraded from SW 2015SP4 to SW 2016SP3. Some things I have noticed in the upgrade are:

                        1. The task scheduler that can be used to convert Workgroup PDM files only worked on the latest revision. The software bombed out on any effort to convert all file revisions.

                        2. Some drawing files that were converted, that have part in a part reference relationships looked pretty awful in the vault, but as soon as they are opened in SW2016 they snap back to the way they were supposed to be. Go figure?

                        3. I have seen SW tell me that the file version I have is an older version file, after it has already been through the conversion process.

                        4. The eDrawings software that launches from the PDMWorks viewer DOES NOT have the same functionality as the stand alone eDrawings software. Measure & mark-up tools have mysteriously disappeared from eDrawings that launches from the viewer. Yet those tools remain in the stand alone version of eDrawings.

                        These are just some of the things I noticed since the upgrade, I'm sure there's more that I'm not aware of.

                      • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                        Brent Hunt

                        is there a side by side comparison chart for workgroup and standard like there is for workgroup and enterprise or standard and professional?  I would like to see just what the real pros and cons are.  What are we gaining and what are we losing?

                          • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                            Jeff Holliday

                            I have not seen any comparisons and I doubt that they exist. WPDM is nearing it's end-of-life so there would be little reason for SW to compare it to anything. It would be good info to know but I don't expect to see it. You could compare them yourself by looking at the specs if you can find them.

                             

                            I do expect both wins/losses. Hopefully the wins exceed the loss.

                              • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                Brent Hunt

                                I disagree with the idea that there is little reason for SW to do anything like this.  We, among many others are not updating to the new PDM until we know more about it; there are still two releases to wait and research what we want to do.  It seems from reading this and other sites that the general consensus is mostly negative.  If SW really wants to keep its customers, I would think they might educate them on their product.  Our VAR is generally pretty good, but they are falling short with this whole PDM Standard thing too.  I hope I am not rambling, but I too am frustrated.

                                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                    Jeff Holliday

                                    First - I do agree with what you are saying. I really wish the decision to end WPDM had not been made or at the least that it had been sold/transferred to a 3rd party.

                                     

                                    There is info available outlining the differences. Go Engineer University has a course relating to to SW PDM. They have a chart showing some of the differences. I will not copy that info because I do not own the info. I will say that I tend to believe the info on that chart because Go Engineer Univ does not have a direct vested interest in trying to switch people's opinions. If another company offering pdm software were to do a compare I may tend to believe it is a bit slanted in their favor. Likewise, if SW Corp were to do a compare it would surprise me if it were presented on a level playing field. As such, I may be suspicious of the positive/negative ratio of info.

                                     

                                    SW Corp has already committed to ending WPDM. Anyone in that position would likely do very little to entice staying on an island that is sinking.

                                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                      Michael Dekoning

                                      Brent,

                                       

                                      Before I wade into this discussion I want you to know that I am a customer of SolidWorks. I do not work for them or a VAR and my opinions are strictly my own. If you are saying that "the general consensus is mostly negative" from the standpoint of how it is perceived that SolidWorks is treating their customers, I agree. However, SW PDM is a solid product that has been around for at least ten years (it was Conisio prior to being acquired). Our company has been using it successfully since 2007. You will find a great deal of information on Enterprise PDM, now PDM Professional, on the internet and here in the forums. You just have to ignore the features that are excluded from PDM Std.

                                • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                  Brian Cannon

                                  We upgraded from Solidworks 2005 to 2014 Professional a few years ago and are on subscription, using 2015. We have three licenses. Back then, one of our users kept insisting that Workgroup PDM be installed, as he "could not work properly". I almost caved in, but after checking with our VAR, I was advised to wait until PDM Standard came out. I am sure glad I waited. We are now in the process of installing Solidworks 2016 with the PDM.

                                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                    Chris Saller

                                    I too planned to update to PDM STD, until our VAR informed me of the cost.

                                    I have been looking into doing the transition myself, making a copy and testing of course.

                                    But, our parent company has been talking about replacing it with something completely different. I don't know with what, I am out of the loop, although I'm the PDM admin.

                                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                      Brian Cannon

                                      I finally installed PDM Standard 2016 on our server and it seemed to go smoothly, including the upgrade of the SolidNet License Manager from 2015 to 2016. As I said before, this is our first PDM, we did NOT previously use Workgroup PDM.

                                       

                                      I have not done the client installation yet because we are running Solidworks 2015 SP5.0 right now, which is working quite well. I am not sure if PDM Standard 2016 works with Solidworks 2015. We do have 2016 SP3.0 ready for installation. Should I install this before I put PDM client on the user computers, or can I keep 2015 and upgrade to 2016 later. Or is a uninstall of 2015 and clean install of 2016 better before implementing the PDM client.

                                      Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

                                      • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                        Rick Stockton

                                        Gordon,

                                        I am looking at DDM (http://www.designdatamanager.com/) as I am looking at some real possible utility loss going to SolidWorks PDM Standard. Have you been looking at other solutions?

                                        Rick

                                          • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                            Gordon Rigg

                                            I have looked at that as well. It could be an advantage to have data management that is not linked to SW, but still works with it. While lower cost than Enterprise, its still a significant cost.

                                            I have yet to determine if the reduced functionality of PDM standard compared to workgroup PDM is an issue for us. Fortunately (luckily?) we have not spent time implementing anything with API to integrate into anything else we use.

                                            It seems to me that to keep WG PDM going with the minimal support it would require would have been worth it, and run PDM standard alongside for a while. The sudden stop of WGPDM and introduction of something with great complexity, but from the customers point of view significantly less functionality, is just going to lose SW a significant number of customers.

                                            They don't seem to realize that the costs of migrating data into PDM standard can go quite some way toward the cost of porting data into an alternative cad system.

                                            But similarly if we just drop maintenance and keep using WGPDM after a few years we have easily saved enough cost to move to another CAD package rather than pay both the back maintenance costs for SW, and the data migration costs. Its like they really lost touch and don't care at all about retaining customers.

                                            So that is my current thinking. Just drop the contract at the end of the current period with a message to them to call me when they have something to offer that addresses this issue in a reasonable way, but don't bother to call me if they don't. I almost did that at the last renewal, it was very close but in the end I decided to pay up another year and investigate PDM standard. But the lack of support from the VAR in trying to do that has been a bit of a nail in the coffin really.

                                            I'm looking elsewhere, for the whole system!

                                            Some system that is forward looking with increasing customer numbers rather than one that is trying to milk income stream from a reducing customer base. Anyone know of one? or is the whole CAD market contracting?

                                              • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                Rick Stockton

                                                Gordon,

                                                A couple of points:

                                                #1  -  Workgroup PDM will not work with SolidWorks 2018 or later.  THE BAD is that you won't be able to use Workgroup PDM with SolidWorks 2018 files.  THE GOOD is that you can take your time transferring old files to whatever you choose.  THE UGLY is that SolidWorks discontinuing the use of Workgroup PDM is screwing so many out of thousands in training, installation, and migration.  I run my own business, and I have learned that if someone will screw you one, then they will do it again, and discontinuing Workgroup PDM is a royal screwing.

                                                #2  -  I am still comparing Workgroup PDM Standard with DDM.  One difference is that the DDM guys have not terminated-a-program-that-is-currently-the-backbone-of-may-product-database-and-caused-me-to-replace-it-at-a-cost-of-thousands-and probably-dozens-of-company-man-hours.  (I really love my VAR, MLC CAD. They are great, but SolidWorks has been horrible, with

                                                — a. Horrible lapse penalties,

                                                — b. Workgroup PDM termination, and

                                                — c. New Alternate License restrictions.

                                                The justification is this:  WE (SolidWorks) WANT TO BE MORE LIKE OUR COMPETITION, AND THEY DOING ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.

                                                 

                                                Well, SolidWorks, it worked. Now I am looking at your COMPETITION, who you are now becoming more like.

                                                 

                                                I hope #1 is especially helpful.

                                                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                    Chris Clouser

                                                    Rick, it's all about the bottom line.  Dassault's that is.  Our bottom line matters only so much that we remain loyal customers.  And by holding our data hostage, we will remain just that.

                                                     

                                                    When someone comes up with a better mousetrap that can handle our legacy data, such as opening our SWX files and utilize the tree features, they are going to make a lot of money converting SWX customers.

                                                • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                  Jonathan Leeper

                                                  Rick,

                                                  We were very impressed with DDM however, ITAR compliance is an issue for us so we ended up going with PDM Standard - and have had continuous headaches ever since. 

                                                  Workgroup does exactly what we need, revision management pure and simple.  Real shame it has to go away.

                                                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                      Rick Stockton

                                                      Thanks Jonathan,

                                                      Yeah, I hate to see Workgroup PDM leave.

                                                      I am looking at DDM with me doing the migration vs. my VAR (MLC CAD) coming to my office and doing installation and migration. At $3,720.00 US, this is $1K more than DDS, but I get my 44 GB Workgroup PDM Vault migration included with SolidWorks PDM Standard. (It sounds like I am getting a relatively good deal from my VAR on installation and migration.)  Again, I am a 1-man shop, don't use Life Cycle any more, nor API, but a PDM system does for me all the things you guys have listed above.

                                                      I am just trying to think if there is something humongous that I will really regret if I went to SolidWorks PDM Standard.

                                                      Ant additional thoughts?

                                                      All the best,

                                                      Rick

                                                       

                                                      Note:  I *did* find out that my Workgroup PDM files are available indefinitely from a SolidWorks 2017 installation. It is small comfort, except that it does allow more time for us to migrate if we do it ourselves.

                                                        • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                          Raymond Morris

                                                          Rick,

                                                          We have changed from Workgroup PDM to PDM Standard. It was in September of 2016 when we finally decided to go for it. We have MLC Cad as our VAR. The person that did all the installation and migration was great. It was the same price as you stated. We have 7 people that actually work on Solidworks. Several things are different from Workgroup. We have several workstations through out our plant where certain people can go and view and print solidworks drawings or at least they could till we changed over to PDM Standard. We found out quickly that we had to invest more money that was unseen into buying PDM Viewers for these stations.

                                                           

                                                          One other short coming (maybe its a bug) is if you save your part into the wrong directory in the vault it is a pain to move. In Workgroup you could easily enough move the part in the proper location and all the assemblies where that part was used would change location. Not so easy in PDM Standard. Sometimes it changes but majority of the time it does not. Also when you moved a file in Workgroup it would actually move the file and delete the file in the wrong location. Again, not so in PDM Standard. It just copies a file into the correct location and leaves one in the wrong location. You have to go back and delete the old file. We have not updated yet to 2017 (we currently have 2016). I am hoping that this is a bug that has been found and corrected. But it may just be how PDM works now.

                                                           

                                                          Another one is we could print from Solidworks Explorer (Workgroup). That is no longer a thing with PDM Standard. It can be done if you invest in upgrading to PDM Professional. It then allows you to print within windows explorer as we once could with Solidworks Explorer.

                                                           

                                                          Raymond

                                                            • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                              Rick Stockton

                                                              Thanks Raymond.

                                                               

                                                              My VAR (MLC CAD) is great, but I sympathize with the guy who was talking about the nasty stuff Assault systems is pulling.

                                                               

                                                              I am concerned that the same folks who yanked Workgroup PDM might leave SolidWorks PDM Standard under-featured, driving SolidWorks customers to the premium version. I asked about why the horrible lapse update penalties, the Workgroup PDM termination, and new alternate license restrictions.  The justification I got back was this:  WE (SolidWorks) WANT TO BE MORE LIKE OUR COMPETITION, AND THEY DOING ALL THIS KIND OF STUFF.  (Now Johnny, just because the other boys jump off the bridge...)

                                                               

                                                              I love my VAR, but trust SolidWorks not so much every time they do some new nasty thing.

                                                               

                                                              It's been 20 years, but this was the same attitude that ProENGINEER had in '97.  I really like SolidWorks, but I see them turning into ProENGINEER.  (I was a ProE pilot once.)

                                                               

                                                              SolidWorks PDM Standard or DDM?  I am running my own business, so if I guess wrong on this, then I am triply screwed, so I want to get it right.  (BTW, if I change to DDM, I may reduce my SolidWorks license to Standard to recoup some losses, which I cannot do with SolidWorks PDM.)

                                                               

                                                              Thanks for your comments, and I would very much like to hear more from both the SolidWorks PDM Standard and the DDM side.

                                                          • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                            Rick Stockton

                                                            Jonathan, can you bullet point some of your headaches?

                                                             

                                                            Rick

                                                              • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                Jonathan Leeper

                                                                Rick,

                                                                Ok, here it goes, my short list:

                                                                • Functionality of PDM Standard is severely crippled – too many times I’ve asked our VAR how to do something and have been told I can’t do that in PDM Standard.
                                                                • Creating a favorites link for a folder in Windows Explorer is a three step process instead of the usual drag and drop.
                                                                • No “move tree”, have fun moving an assembly into another folder.
                                                                • In Solidworks Explorer, it was easy to see what parts belonged to what assemblies via the tree and expand arrows. PDM just shows everything in the folder, you need to click on a file and then a tab to see what relationships exist.
                                                                • Attaching a word or pdf document to a file is now “copy” and “paste as reference”, but you need to check out/in files for the attachment to work.
                                                                • PDM Standard will reference files that have been deleted and are in the folder’s trash.  Make sure you “destroy” deleted files.  
                                                                • Checking out a top assembly and all of its components will cause PDM to try to check out all of the drawings associated with all of the parts in the assembly – “there is no option to discount drawings in the checkout context” (quote from support).
                                                                • Changing the name of a file will not automatically update the field on the part card.
                                                                • We are constantly sending and receiving files from our customers.  In Workgroup this was easy Pack and Go. I have not had the personal pleasure of checking these files back in but have watched my compatriots go through the horror of updating references. 

                                                                Bottom line – PDM Standard, for us, is cutting into productivity. Yes, learning any new process can be frustrating, but this is ridiculous. Workgroup was a simple tool which worked very well for us.

                                                                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                    Gordon Rigg

                                                                    In my limited experiments I had just a few files in the new vault, and was still working on the workflow. Now I have an orphan state in my workflow, but it cannot be deleted because some of the files I have in the vault have been in that state.

                                                                    It doesn't seem possible to identify those files at all.

                                                                    Even if that was possible I don't think the state that is there in the history can be deleted in the file itself - I'm not sure how to deal with that situation really....

                                                                    This seems to satisfy my first rule of software packages - whatever the software is you will find some very disappointing shortcoming in the first few minutes of use!

                                                                    (Perhaps I'm missing something?).

                                                                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                      Rick Stockton

                                                                      Jonathan,

                                                                       

                                                                      Wow!

                                                                       

                                                                      That is really troubling. Especially as a one-man CAD department (and one-man business) any productivity losses fall right on me. I'm getting on the line in 15 minutes with a couple guys from DDM and a DDM user whose comments have also been very illustrative. I leaned Workgroup PDM in 2000, have taught it to workmates, and set up multiple Vaults, and used Workgroup PDM for 17 years, with few gaps, including a brief and horrific descent into SmarTeam while I was with a medium-sized med device company here in San Antonio.

                                                                       

                                                                      I really love my VAR, MLC CAD, and, at least as much, my very first VAR when I was in the Northeast, DesignPoint, but their hands would be tied if I needed to retain the ability to do all of the your bullet pointed tasks with ease.

                                                                       

                                                                      Also, if, in the approaching decade, I begin to use another CAD program in tandem with SolidWorks, SolidWorks PDM Standard will probably not accommodate a competitor.

                                                                       

                                                                      Thanks, Jonathan. You certainly delivered on those bullet points!

                                                                       

                                                                      All the best,

                                                                       

                                                                      Rick

                                                                  • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                    Andreas Rhomberg

                                                                    Jonathan Leeper

                                                                    how exactly are you handling ITAR ? are you 100% compliant?

                                                                    we are dealing with this set-up at the moment and can not find ways to compliant, even with PDM professional.

                                                                    thanks,

                                                                    Andreas

                                                                      • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                        John Pesaturo

                                                                        Andreas & Jonathan ... We are in the process of transitioning to PDM Standard as well and we too deal with ITAR projects here and there. The majority of our transition will be handled by our VAR with exception of the "verification runs" but our ITAR documents raised no questions on the VAR's end.

                                                                         

                                                                        If possible, could you elaborate on what issues you have encountered with being ITAR compliant?

                                                                          • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                            Edward Poole

                                                                            John I just caught this thread and have read quite a few early posts...Interesting that you bring up ITAR, I'm the CAD Admin, but as of late, I've been stripped of my Admin powers, IT says that ITAR say's that even though our division is not directly involved with the defense side, we are all on the same network and only a select few IT people have Admin access, I used to only have access to the engineering computers (12), now I have to tell them how to fix what they've screwed-up this week! So annoying. I bugged the VP of IT for rights and he said nothing doing. I think he's full of baloney! They just like to have control over everything. I can't even add a printer anymore. Arrrgggghhh!

                                                                            • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                              Andreas Rhomberg

                                                                              John Pesaturo

                                                                              The audit logging is not robust. We need to be able to show people that successfully access / view files.  Specifically we need the ability to search for folks by name and show such access.

                                                                              Two factor authentication is required.

                                                                              The biggest hangup is the auditing, it seems like it records what we need there is just no way to report it …  what is built in is woefully limited.

                                                                              For example a audit requirement might be to show all access to a particular project for a particular date range.   That doesn’t really exist.

                                                                      • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                        Chris Clouser

                                                                        I'm just guessing that nothing any of you have dealt with could possibly compare to my experience with a certain third party PDM, for those who wish to feel a little better about their own situation...

                                                                         

                                                                        https://forum.solidworks.com/message/581460#comment-581460?q=adept

                                                                         

                                                                        the company that implemented this software lost untold hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars in productivity (who's to actually tell?).  Their workflow simply became "check the entire assembly out of Adept", "modify assembly accordingly", "check back into Adept", "pray that someone else wasn't working on another piece of the project at the same time and overwrites your updates"...

                                                                         

                                                                        They are now migrating to EPDM.

                                                                        • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                          Christian Chu

                                                                          Gordon,

                                                                          Do you want to transfer all revision history from wPDM to PDM stadard or just want the current rev. to be transfered?

                                                                          For the 1st option: it needs help from VAR as we, the users, don't have that tool

                                                                          For the 2nd option: it's not that bad to set it up and run  by yourserlf

                                                                            • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                              Gordon Rigg

                                                                              i transferred only the latest revision. however with a two part revision (A-01, A-02, B-01) the tools provided don't cope.

                                                                              I created a special workflow to manually achieve the letter and number revision statuses.

                                                                                • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                                  Christian Chu

                                                                                  I'm just wondering why you need to transfer the secondary rev. (number) to PDM std

                                                                                    • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                                      Gordon Rigg

                                                                                      It is not a sequence A-01 to A-99 and then B-01...

                                                                                      Revision A-02 to A-03 means the A-02 parts can still be used but future parts should be purchased to A-03.
                                                                                      Revision from A-02 to B-01 means the A-02 stock has to be modified or scrapped
                                                                                      Both the letter and the number have important meanings to us.

                                                                                        • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                                          Christian Chu

                                                                                          Gordon Rigg wrote:

                                                                                           

                                                                                          It is not a sequence A-01 to A-99 and then B-01...

                                                                                          Revision A-02 to A-03 means the A-02 parts can still be used but future parts should be purchased to A-03.
                                                                                          Revision from A-02 to B-01 means the A-02 stock has to be modified or scrapped
                                                                                          Both the letter and the number have important meanings to us.

                                                                                          I understand that - I'm not sure how you set up for your workflow but the way PDM std handles the rev. is a bit diff. from wPDM and we only transfer the current (letter) from wPDM to PDM std while starts the 2nd rev. from 01 for earlier states as it means nothing in the new PDM system since we can't recall the history from the old PDM.

                                                                                          Does it make sense to you?

                                                                                          • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                                            Chris Saller

                                                                                            To me that complicates it. If you have to go back in history, you might open a scrapped revision by mistake.

                                                                                            I prefer to use the ECO/ECN form to indicate scrap/etc. Use PDM to track only changes.

                                                                                              • Re: PDM std vs Workgroup PDM vs Windows File system
                                                                                                Gordon Rigg

                                                                                                what we choose to make multi part revisions mean isnt relevant to the issue, most of us that used the revision scheme provided in WPDM need to import at least the last revision status in full.
                                                                                                Solidworks provided an inadequate "set revision" tool because it does not cover the revision schemes that were supported in WPDM. If you used primary and secondary revisions its a whole heap of work with no help AT ALL from solidworks on how to retain your own data unless you pay a shed load of money for your VAR to do it for you.
                                                                                                A short summary of the work round is:
                                                                                                create a work state for each major release A, B, C etc
                                                                                                separate your files according to their letter release
                                                                                                and then process the files to synchronise their minor release using the set revision tool, in individual groups.
                                                                                                Then use special transitions to set the letter release appropriately.
                                                                                                At the end of that you have loads of work states that have all been used so cant be deleted, which is another minor issue.
                                                                                                Its a whole load of work just to get the latest revision translated, when it has a primary and secondary part. Workgroup supported (Encouraged the use of?) primary, secondary and tertiary (and perhaps more) part revision statuses.

                                                                                                SW happily provided a tool to help us import legacy revision status, published a guide on how to use it,  but it doesn't support the revision types that they themselves encouraged us to use with their previous system.

                                                                                                 

                                                                                                SPR 982798 and we know what status that will remain on...
                                                                                                customer impact? Cripplingly bad.
                                                                                                action: none.
                                                                                                silence: deafening.

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