59 Replies Latest reply on Apr 16, 2019 3:32 AM by Inho Sung

    The Future of Motion

    Alan Thomason

      I just wanted to make sure I'm spending time with a product for which SolidWorks has a vision.  With Motion, it is difficult to get help and if you look at the forum entries many of them go un-answered.  It seems to change very little, with the exception of becoming chromatically challenged in 2016 to match the rest of the SolidWorks software group.

       

      The question...Does SolidWorks regard Motion as a valued entry in the 'suite' with a real future?

        • Re: The Future of Motion
          Hari Padmanabhan

          Alan,

           

          Thanks for raising a candid point about motion. Being an employee of DS involved with motion product since 2001 in various roles - tech support, training, consulting, management, definition, I hear you that from a customer stand point we haven't done enough in the last 4 years to push this product forward and improve its capabilities.

           

          I'm hoping to start changing it moving forward.

           

          I'm biased because I'm personally involved in this product in many ways, but this is a great product and still has many good things about this product. I would love to hear from the forum community what we can do to improve this product.

           

          Over the years, SOLIDWORKS has grown to meet various customer needs. So there is a lot of value and functionality for our users. To make improvements to any part of SOLIDWORKS, a strong case needs to be made to push new features to each release. We cannot do everything what our users ask us.

           

          So I would love to hear all the feedback since we are in the planning stage for the next release.

           

          Thank you for all your ideas.

           

          Regards,

          Hari

          Product Definition

            • Re: The Future of Motion
              Roland Schwarz

              4 years? I've been having the same basic problems for much longer and seen zero improvement. Something with a simple descriptor like "constant speed motor" ought to live up to its name. I don't know what you're working on, but it's painfully obvious what you're not.

                • Re: The Future of Motion
                  Hari Padmanabhan

                  Roland, I have started the discussion so I keep it to the end.  Just kidding.

                  I work on definition of new functionality....There is a already a corporate process to file bugs and get support from your reseller and get critical bugs fixed. So any basic problems you reported should have followed that path. Since I'm not technical support since 2006, I'm not familiar if your issues were resolved. Send me a private message from the forum and I can check the current status of your issues.

                   

                  Hopefully you will not judge me based on the cover (just this blog).

                   

                  And I agree I haven't been very active in blogs and I hope to embrace it this year. This is my first attempt to keep abreast of user pain points in the forum. I get pain points from customer from other methods - customer visits, etc.

                   

                  In the last 4 years, I have been working on many things including motion on the 3DExperience Platform - if I give you a list of things I work on it might frustrate you more, since there are more reasons a current product has been neglected. Past is done. So what can we do now and beyond to make SOLIDWORKS motion the best product in the market. Motion is a small piece in the whole SOLIDWORKS eco-system. The reality is that SOLIDWORKS has limited resources so that time is used to develop key areas as users dictate. Motion in the desktop product has not been getting a lot of love in the past 4 years.

                   

                  So I need passionate users like you helping guide the product to the future.

                   

                  Thanks for listening and providing feedback.

                   

                  Regards,

                  Hari

                • Re: The Future of Motion
                  Alan Thomason

                  Thanks very much for the note.  It is reassuring to hear from Dassault on this matter.  I look forward to seeing the positive changes. 

                  • Re: The Future of Motion
                    Alessandro Tornincasa

                    Thank you Hari for your involvement in the community and willingness to listen to the needs of the various companies using SOLIDWORKS Motion.

                     

                    I work for a VAR as an application engineer and I've been involved a lot with Motion at several companies with very disparate use cases.

                    I would love to share with you some of those and help shape the future of Motion.

                     

                    Alex

                    • Re: The Future of Motion
                      Thomas Voetmann

                      Personally I would like a possibility to attach arrows to a vertex. Arrows that dynamically showing velocity and acceleration. The current table output is not sufficient and a graphic representation could highlight potential problems.

                      I would also like to do a "static motion". Maybe self contradictory but what I would like is to analyze my motion assembly (with perfectly rigid elements) in a static state to evaluate forces (size and direction) in joints and other elements when the construction is loaded.

                      • Re: The Future of Motion
                        Alessandro Tornincasa

                        Also, you would make happy lots of people involved in the packaging industry if you could implement a "conveyor feaure".

                        Look at attached video. The first conveyor is carrying some chocolate bars. The second conveyor is moving faster because the aim is increasing the distance between the bars.

                        Creating the conveyor is a big pain because of all the mates involved.

                        If you had a "conveyor belt" feature you would set the discretization level (number of plates that approximate the conveyor) and system should:

                        - suggest a proper value accounting for the minimum curvature radius of the path (otherwise the plate won't be able to curve)

                        - create all path mates and mates between one plate and the following plate

                        This is because very often you need to know how the object will react to inertial forces of conveyor.

                         

                        Alex

                        • Re: The Future of Motion
                          ED Danzer

                          Hari,

                          I tried in 2003, 2005, 2007 and in 2012 to get some features in Motion. I have been off maintenance for several years in protest for not getting what should be simple basic features with a decent user interface. I upgraded a few month ago mostly for FEA and find Motion still poor. To do what I need it looks like MalpleSim will be required. Maybe there needs to be an advance version of motion that cost a few thousand dollar more and actually provide usable tools to do simulation.

                          If SolidWorks does not do something soon I will be off maintenance again and move to another platform.

                          It is a shame that a customer since 1995 has to drop support in protest.

                          Ed Danzer

                          • Re: The Future of Motion
                            Gianluca Mattaroccia

                            Dear Hari, I strongly believe that the future of Motion is an important part of the simulation package.

                            While Solidworks Simulation has grown to a great level during the years, Motion has really gone nowhere.

                            I believe the reason stands behind the fact that there isn't much out there from DS that opens Engineer's eyes on what to do with it and the type of problems one can solve with it.

                            Customer Testimonials are the best propulsion force behind a product, if there are few the product lacks of innovation and interest.

                            I hope this changes soon. Being an Engineer involved in the design of electro-mechanical machines this is one of the tools I would want to be able to rely on.

                            Thanks

                            • Re: The Future of Motion
                              Marcus Merideth

                              So what has changed for 2017?  I cannot find anything and the basic inability to drive force functions with displacements is rather sad. 

                              Thanks!

                                • Re: The Future of Motion
                                  Hari Padmanabhan

                                  In 2016 we added the ability to import mate controller items into animation or motion study.

                                  In 2017 nothing changed.

                                  Customers are using motion and requesting enhancements and finding issues. SOLIDWORKS is committed to improving this product and we will continue to improve it.

                                   

                                  On the second item - inability to drive force functions with displacements - give me more details. There might be a way to do this based on what you are trying to do. What do you want to do here? Are you trying to create some sort of nonlinear behavior? Are you trying to create an actuator and trying to controls its force based on the displacement?

                                    • Re: The Future of Motion
                                      Marcus Merideth

                                      I am working on an automotive latch. The striker impacts the latch at 0-3 m/sec hitting moveable parts and a rubber bumper.  The catch also hits a rubber bumper at close to fully latch position.  My approach has been to try an model the rubber impacts in non linear simulation and then developing a force-deflection curve for the bumpers and drop that into the motion model to try and simplify.  That should be simple but it is not.  While it is possible to drive a force function from displacement, it is very touchy and the dimension used for the function does not seem to be a reference I create but something solidworks picks and I have to figure out how the number compares to my equation and then adjust.  If I plot displacement it does not match the number used in the equations.  This should be basic and is way too much trouble. 

                                      When trying to drive a mechanism with a motor using the torque-rpm curves, the motor loves to change direction for no obvious reason.  Seems if you start it at some initial rpm it is less likely to reverse but no reason why.

                                      Contacts:  the available presets are very limited and trying to develop ones for a particular material is unclear.  I do happen to have some information on coefficient of restitution from test data but the models blow up often when i use them.

                                       

                                      I want to define sensors and use them in the equations.

                                      I want to understand the contact variables and have some way to create them from common material information.

                                      I want error reports that actually same something meaningful.  Shooting in the dark really upsets me.

                                      I will be looking for a new kinematics package in the next month or so.  Suggestions are welcome!

                                  • Re: The Future of Motion
                                    Mike Sutherland

                                    Hari,

                                     

                                    I quite like the Motion product and have used it for a number of projects.  However, I now think I need to use the function builder to generate a specific motor motion profile and haven't the slightest clue as where to start.  There are no tutorials, as far as I'm aware, of how to get started with using expressions in the function builder.  Is there some resource that you can point me to that would get me started with using expressions in the function builder?  Any help would be greatly appreciated!

                                     

                                    FWIW the Motion product is extremely powerful, but it appears to have been neglected by SW for quite a long time....

                                     

                                    Best,

                                    Mike

                                    • Re: The Future of Motion
                                      Humam Talhami

                                      I think that Solidworks Motion will start getting a lot of pressure of MATLAB Simscape Multibody. I use both and, at this point, I prefer Motion; however, Simscape has much more capabilities than motion and better customer support.

                                      • Re: The Future of Motion
                                        ED Danzer

                                        It has been 3 years since this thread was started. Has anyone seen added feature?

                                         

                                        I'm about ready to invest in Altair solidThinking for motion simulation because of a lack or response from SolidWorks.

                                         

                                        No linear actuator in 16 years. So it must be a dead product.

                                          • Re: The Future of Motion
                                            Marcus Merideth

                                            I think they are at best paying lip service to motion.  I have seen nothing of value on the motion side.

                                            Anybody have a suggestion for a better motion study product?

                                             

                                            Thanks!

                                             

                                            Marcus

                                              • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                Inho Sung

                                                Thanks for your explanation of best paying lip service.

                                                If my investigation is right ( my output graph result),  then physics background is required absolutely.

                                                • The tutorial 2011 is the most simple physics exercise, free fall under gravity.
                                                • I do not know much of Solidworks motion analysis.
                                                • My idea at the moment need to be confirmed or advised from Solidworks.
                                                  • Motion along path, which has no inflection point, then it is reliable.
                                                  • When inflection point exists on the path then simulate separately before and after the inflection.
                                          • Re: The Future of Motion
                                            Roland Schwarz

                                            Other things that don't work:

                                            •pin-in-slot contact

                                            •cam pickup (e.g. Poppet) with cam rotated by constant speed motor

                                            • Re: The Future of Motion
                                              Prasad Bhave

                                              Hi,

                                              Hari

                                              Product Definition

                                              in above cam follower motion study if I want to design the spring constant or free length to get apropriate spring is it posible in motion study that we can run study by which we can optimize the spring ?.

                                              prasad

                                                • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                  Alessandro Tornincasa

                                                  Prasad,

                                                  I think you can do it.

                                                  SOLIDWORKS Motion allows you to define a free length (which in turn determines spring pre-load) and spring constant. Based on that data you now know what spring to choose.

                                                   

                                                  Alternatively, with Motion Optimization (Simulation Professional) you could use a design study in which, based on variables, constaints, and goals, Motion determines the optimal spring design.

                                                   

                                                  Alex

                                                • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                  Prasad Bhave

                                                  Thanks Hari,Product Definition !

                                                  I got the way in which we can think .thanks again

                                                  please let me know why following results comes ?:

                                                  If I supress the

                                                  1) Side _1_Support x2 nos

                                                  2) Screw road

                                                  3) Suport<1> in assembly

                                                  we found that no redundancy exist but finding very
                                                  difficulty in geting proper result due
                                                  to

                                                  1. redundancy.

                                                  in present case if I run Motion Analysis 29 Redundancies' are
                                                  there

                                                  here in present scenario if I measure the vertical
                                                  displacement by graph the value is just




                                                    

                                                  some error in showing the value bet

                                                  distance shown by m tool
                                                  is

                                                  =110.38mm

                                                  and graph show that it is from =161 to 339=(178)

                                                  I can not understood what is the value actually !

                                                  please explain if possible

                                                  Prasad

                                                    • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                      Alessandro Tornincasa

                                                      Prasad,

                                                      If you selected two faces, linear displacement represents the position of the origin of the first part you selected, respect to the origin of the second selected part. If you didn't select any reference part, XYZ directions are respect global cordinate system.

                                                      In your case, in order to avoid mathworks to find out faces distance, you might try selecting linear motor, which will give you the relative position of the motor's location with respect to the motor's original

                                                      position at time = 0.

                                                       

                                                      Alex

                                                    • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                      Prasad Bhave

                                                      kind attention mr Hari,

                                                      in motion Analysis of big assembly how to overcome reducing redandances by the process given in catloge

                                                      the process seams to be very long and difficult.

                                                      if I calculate the required force at one of the joints in big assembly by ignoaring other linked joints , can the results thus found are reliable?

                                                      pl explain

                                                      prasad

                                                      • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                        Marcus Merideth

                                                        Anybody get any feedback from Solidworks on motion upgrades?  My license is up soon and I am not sure I am going to keep using Solidworks at this point.

                                                         

                                                        Thanks!

                                                        • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                          Marcus Merideth

                                                          Did 2018 move to the latest ADAMS motion solver?  I cannot find anything about any motion changes in the whats new paper.  Did I miss something or did nothing get updated?

                                                          Thanks!

                                                           

                                                          Marcus

                                                          • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                            Inho Sung

                                                            Hari,

                                                            Nowadays i started to learn the motion analysis for a couple of month ago. And hesitate to adopt the Solidworks.

                                                             

                                                            • Followed per 2011 tutorial. (attached)
                                                              • 1 case and result graph is given and  2 cases are discussed but no result graphic.

                                                                     

                                                            • My findings
                                                              • 20 cases are given below. ( Tutorial time is till 0.5 seconds but mine is 0.6 seconds.)

                                                                       

                                                                         

                                                            • Topics
                                                              1. There's no rebound after hit the bottom except one case. ( friction 0.1 frame 500)
                                                              2. friction 0.25, frame 500 case the roller speed is increasing. It is not at other frames, 1000, 2000 and 3000 frames.
                                                              3. After hit the flat surface the speed seems like constant and/or decreasing.
                                                                • My first idea the speed after hit, it should be decreased like as friction 0.1. Friction decrease the speed so constant speed is wrong and increasing is wrong also.
                                                                • Constant speed and increasing speed under friction condition violates the law of conservation of energy.
                                                                • How do you think different graphic depend on frame.
                                                              • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                                Ryan Navarro

                                                                I'm honestly having a hard time understanding what you are trying to achieve with that test and also what you seem to think is the problem

                                                                 

                                                                I would suggest designing an experiment with a more narrow scope. What is the thing you are trying to validate? If it's friction, set up a simple model for just that (maybe a flat plane with cylinder rolling, with set initial velocity). If it's friction + gravity then have an inclined plane, but make sure you terminate the solution before it rolls off the end so you don't get that extraneous data from freefall.

                                                                 

                                                                It looks more like you are adjusting coefficient of restitution between the studies as the item is more bouncy, and there is no terms for air resistance in Motion so it will not lose momentum while it is airborn

                                                                 

                                                                I didn't have time to look through your full results to understand more but I think others might share my sentiment of confusion

                                                                 

                                                                There are a number of settings in Motion that  can affect accuracy... as is true of any analysis package. I'm not saying there's not a combination of settings that could yield inaccurate results, but I think the general principles are sound, at least for a problem such as the one you've linked. It's always a good exercise to validate your setup so I think you are on a good path by trying to do that

                                                                 

                                                                EDIT: Also your results plots are too blurry for me to see what is going on, if you could attach a higher resolution version of your results that would be helpful!

                                                                  • Re: The Future of Motion
                                                                    Inho Sung

                                                                    If read tutorial, comment would be very nice.

                                                                    If got my point, comment would be very very nice.

                                                                    If understood the result the case of friction 0.25 frame rate 500, would understand why additional tests are needed.

                                                                     

                                                                    Not a validation but a compromising.

                                                                    When a new product is introduced, everybody try to know how to use it and make sure the results are reliable.

                                                                    I am trying to compromise the solidworks with the physics for further use.