12 Replies Latest reply on Feb 1, 2016 4:21 PM by Eric Blankinship

    How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 

    Anton Petrov

      Please help me settle a debate with my coworkers.

       

      I have been modeling in SW for many years but back in my education days i never took any computer drafting classes and never learned proper drafting/modeling conventions.  My company designs bicycles. When i start a model of a bicycle frame, i choose the Right plane to coincide with the logical right plane of the finished product.  So when you look at a bicycle from the right, that is the right plane.  But everyone else here models with the Front plane being the right side of the bicycle. Their reasoning is that when a 2D drawing is created, the major view of the frame model is its right side.  Because it is the main view, the drafting convention calls that view to be on the Front plane. 

       

      I think that because the finished product has planes that coincide with our human planes then it should be modeled as such.  If the object doesn't have a logical front/side then it should be modeled based on which view would be the major view in production 2D drawings. 

       

      I believe that in the automotive industry the Front plane is that of the Front of the car.  I gather that from a bunch of Alias tutorials that i have done in which the car is always positioned in that way. 

       

      Obviously this debate is mostly philosophical because i could literary just click on a Right plane and rename it to Front plane.  But there is also a practical aspect for me because when we collaborate, my models are always rotated relatively to everyone elses models. 

       

      Thank you for your input. 

        • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
          Bryan Ray

          I teach my student engineers that the front plane should always be the most detailed face of the part.  Hence, I would be in agreement with 'everyone else here'.  Sorry...

          • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
            John Stoltzfus

            Sitting on the seat should determine which hand... Same as a car..

            • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
              Anton Petrov

              Did some more research and it looks like the SAE convention states that the forward direction of the vehicle is the x axis and downward is the z axis.  Which when translated to solidworks would actually put the vehicle (or a bicycle...)  on the Solidworks Top plane. 

               

              Either way, i cannot win.....

                • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                  Bryan Ray

                  We all learn that there are 3 ways to do things in the workplace.  The right way, the wrong way and the boss's way (Are you really that dumb look is optional) 

                   

                  FWIW, I would model the driver's side of a car or (when sitting on the seat) the left side of the bike as the front view.  If I were drawing a CNC mill or lathe, the doors would be the front view.

                   

                  I would also agree, yet disagree with John above.  When ordering parts for a car (U.S.) the right headlight is on the passenger side of the car, but I would not translate that to a 3rd angle projected view...

                • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                  Paul Salvador

                  Anal engineers love this topic.. so, this conversation could go on forever...

                  To each his own... otherwise..   working with many programs/projects myself,..  each 3D program has different screen orientations per XYZ defaults (and some allow for those to change)...so,...

                  Per/Part or Assembly,.. each products XYZ's are different per program managment and user preference,..

                  Some users set a default screen orientation for internal company rules/acceptatnce and export per vendor agreement/cooperation.

                  For the auto/airplane industry, the default position is per a global assembly coordinate system  with the front/nose being the XY and Z being the length of the vehicle.  ... and, a secondary orientation of each component can be set localized/oriented per the manufacturing/vendor.

                  The housing/building industry is more specific to our real world/global coordinates,.. with XY (floor plan) and Z (elevation).

                  Drawing views/orientations are so easy to change in programs,... so, the XY or YZ or whatever are not a factor imho.

                  For the bike orientation,.. again, it depends on preference..,  for me personally, using SolidWorks defaults, I would place the tires of the bike on the XZ (ground/top) and have the frame on the YZ (right).. and the crank/pedels along the XY (front).. that is, the front tire facing the top/right corner of the screen,.. as if I were getting on the bike.... but/maybe, the front tire facing the top/left corner of the screen.. (horse sadding side)?

                  • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                    Eric Blankinship

                    Just to throw my two cents in on this topic.

                     

                    My company designs parts that we sell in halves and give 1 to Customer A and 2nd part to Customer B which they then later place together when the modules meet.  The way we always set up our planes is based on feature interaction between the two halves so that the Front Plane is set as the primary mating surface.  Just another way of making things work.  It honestly is more up to company preference how you do things.

                     

                    Honestly I'd find uniformity to be the thing to strive for here so regardless of decision the "easiest" although not best way of fixing the planes on existing parts would be to

                     

                    A. Rename the Planes to match

                    B. Go into the view orientation in the model and Update the standard views to make a view looking normal to the "newly named front view" as the front view.

                     

                    This will at least solve the issue during collaboration as everyones models will be oriented the same way regardless of how it was initially made

                    • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                      Rolando Garza

                      We think of them as separate customers: (assuming you are manufacturing from 3D)

                      • Our Shop as the customer: For example, our machinists have asked that Datum A be the face of the 3D model that will sit on the milling machine's table. This requires the designer to know which machine the part will be made on - which is a good thing.
                      • Drawing's consumer as the customer: Drawings can be made to look to whatever you would like to give to the customer.
                      • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                        Brian Bump

                        Learning drafting with pencil & straight edge and teaching myself SolidWorks, I'm unsure if there are proper modeling techniques that make assembly & detailing easier.  So after we've all agreed which face of the (car, bike, whatever) should be the front, is it common practice to model all other components of the assembly in the correct orientation that they are assembled?  For example, if it is decided that the nose of the car is the front, should the side wall of the tires then be on the right/left plane when modeling the tires?  Will modeling in this manner allow parts to be inserted into the assembly in the correct orientation to eliminate the need to rotate before mating?  And will this have any effect on creating drawings?

                        • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                          Mark Sneddon

                          Anton,

                          "But everyone else here models with the Front plane being the right side of the bicycle."  It really doesn't matter which plane they use in the models. When you create a drawing it matters. If your co-horts are not creating drawings with the front view looking at the front forks-tire? something is wrong. See image. Note: I think my choice would be to select the right plane "logical right plane" if I were laying out the frame. The front wheel would be on  the left side. Second when bringing in standard views Top-Front-Right side you would not have to select the left view as your front view. Anton stick to your guns!

                          Thanks.

                          Mark

                          bikeview.JPG

                          • Re: How to choose the correct body orientation when modeling. 
                            David Guza

                            I orient parts in the same way I would envision them to be oriented in an assembly.  For example, if I am designing a lawnmower engine assembly and I want to design a crankshaft, I will choose the sketch planes on the crankshaft part to allow the crankshaft to be oriented in the way that it would be inserted into the engine crankshaft housing bearings in the assembly - if that makes sense. This of course requires you to determine how you want to orient your assembly first. The reason is when I import parts into an assembly, the parts pop in with the desired orientation already and I don't have to waste time re-orienting the parts for easier mating.  Hope this helps.