I sit and wait/restart for 2+ HOURS every single day because of Stupidworks' instability. What about y'all? Do you lose much time?
I lose maybe 1 minute per day on average. I rarely have crashes. I'm using 2014 SP5.
I've heard from others that swx 2014 was stable. Swx 2015, sadly, is crap.
I do experience the need to restart and also hard lock-ups / crashes periodically... I would say that I lose maybe three minutes a day on average. Ocassionally I will actually lose significant work - but that just reminds me to save early and save often. I learned this initially with Pro/E, but I guess I need to be reminded of that occasionally.
But I really question the accuracy of blaming all that on the software. I find that if I pull my PC out of sleep mode while SWX was running and resume using SWX, my chances of crashing are greater. This chance seems to increase even more if I un-dock my laptop and / or re-dock with SWX running. Is that Microsoft's fault, or SWX? Or maybe it is Dell's fault and my hardware is glitchy... I suspect there is significant productivity lost due to crashes that could be avoided by using approved hardware that is 100% defect free and an OS that is flawless as well. Then there's always the stumble that I make - when I am venturing into a functionality of the software that I have never used and don't know the workflow or procedure and I poke around and cause a failure / crash. That has happened - (and I have never taken the time to reproduce that and report it as a bug, shame on me) - so, is that a user error?
I am looking forward to the data that comes in - as well as the comments on this. Similar threads have been created on PTC forums and I would love to "know" (as if that is even possible) which software package has less time lost to instability.
I am on mostly 2015 SP4 now, but my "data" is an unscientific "average" over the last three years or so, spanning 4 versions.
SW2015 sp2.0. Two crashes yesterday. I probably lost 15 minutes of work with the first one. (It crashed when I tried to paste text into a general table in a drawing.) Pretty much none with the second (same issue). While I've also had a few more issues with SW2015 than I did with SW2014, the overall average time lost is still less than 5 minutes per day, and probably closer to 1 or 2.
You bring up good points. I close SW and log off my computer every night, so each day is starting anew. And I shut down completely each weekend. That may help keep SW stable.
I'm running 2014 SP5. I lose about 30minutes a day combined running 2 machines doing extensive flow simulations. Most of my crashes are from trying to do too much in the background while Flow is using 95+% of the CPU and 20GB+ of RAM so I don't complain (just go to the kitchen for a fresh bottle of water while I reboot).
I'm sorry to sound contrarian, but I think some people replying might want to do an experiment of tracking your actual time carefully down to the minute. I think you might find you're underestimating how much time you are really losing.
Using a stop watch, I timed a typical crash and my response time until I get back running and back to where I was. It takes approx. 1-3 minutes for me to react to the crash, re-start the software, and reload the file I was working on, and get my self situated back to what I was trying to do just before the crash.
If, however, you decide it might be necessary to restart the whole computer, I timed that taking an additional 3-4 minutes of total time between Windows shutting down, then rebooting, then logging back into Windows, relaunching SolidWorks, and finally reloading my file.
Next factor in how much work I actually lost that I have to re-do, which could be anywhere from 1 to 15 minutes of work depending on when I last saved and how diligent I've been with saving often.
Next factor in the time it takes actually redo the work. So that's another approximate 1-10 minutes (since it is almost always faster the second time around).
Add up the minimum time and your at about 5 minutes total lost time and work. Add up the maximum and it's about 30 minutes of total lost time, for just one crash.
I'm sorry, but there is just no way anyone who says that they experience a couple crashes a day can then turn around and say that they only lose a couple minutes per day. That is just not being realistic.
Here where I work, we are responsible for tracking the time we spend on projects down to about 5-10 minutes accuracy for client billing purposes. In the past I would just think of SolidWorks issues as par for the course and that lost time would get bundled into the project cost that we charged the client. But for the past couple of months I have been instead tracking lost time due to issues with SolidWorks as a separate item not billed to the client. You would be shocked at much that lost time adds up! Not cool!
I have to agree with Jamil and Nathan on this (1 to 2 minutes). I can go weeks without a crash and I do some fairly complex stuff trying to duplicate things that I find on the forum. I do save frequently and when a crash happens I simply restart SW and don't use the same method that I used to cause the crash.
Edit:... Wouldn't you know it!!! When I tried to save my comment my system crashed!
I agree. I'd guess at least 15 minutes per crash. With 2014, at least this only happens maybe once a day. With 2015, maybe 5-10 times per day. The worst part about crashes is not the lost time, but the lost work. When I say lost work, I mean work that I did, that didn't get saved because of the crash, and I don't remember to redo. This work is truly lost, and can cause very costly mistakes. So to avoid this, after every crash, I have to try to think back on everything I've done in the last hour or so (even if I think it was before the last save - relying on human memory isn't all that reliable) and check to make sure that it really is done. Wastes huge amounts of time.
ah man,.. as a one man shop,.. it really depends on what I'm working with (typically master model using curves/surfaces),...
in a 4-10 hr day,... anywhere between 30min (hangs/crashes) to 3hrs (where you loose data/time rebuilding)...
...currently ~30min/day would be about right... crash, hang, research, rebuilding problem features where SW crashes for no reason anywhere between 2-20 crashes/hangs/wth a day,
.. a reboot (or shutdown)... sure, EVERYDAY and EVERY FAILURE... I mean,.. it takes ~2 min avg to do everything,,. that is, decide if it worth it,.. shutdown/reboot/open files/... and start work again. (yes, my system can reboot in <10 sec too...but that is not a true stop/start event)
so yes, a safe anal cya thing to do and it's something I do OFTEN,.... BUT.. does it REALLY HELP!? .. I mean... really, where is the PROOF it really makes a difference???? .... man,.. that is a whole other discussion?
BUT,.. what about the time in system maintenance... REINSTALLING/REPAIRING SW?.. or testing SP's to see which one is less flaky?.... if I were to add that.. over the past 1-2 months.. ~3X testing, ~2X reinstalling and ~4X repairing.... hmm... ~12hrs lost time!? I won't get that $ back in my annual subscription!
btw.. as a one man shop.. I can address the issues very quickly.. although, I really can't imagine what the GROSS loss is for a LARGE CORP!?... maybe 3X-5X per user too my loss factor?
(using 2015 sp4 on Windows 8.1)
I certainly do not crash every day... Maybe once or twice in two weeks. If I crashed every day, I would be camped at my VAR. That is not acceptable and I am very thankful that I don't need to deal with that. Troy, I hear what you are saying and I agree. But I am really surprised to see so "many" (?) users are seeing crashes so frequently. I wonder what the percentage is of users who deal with this.
I will say that my old school ways that came from learning Pro/E way back in the 1900's taught me modeling practices that made "stable models" - could it be that "modeling practices" are part of the issue here? E.g. I cringe at under defined sketches and imagine that the software has to go through extra calcs to figure that out...? SWX doesn't really warn you if you have a circular reference in an assembly - it just deals with it. Pretty cool that a plate can be assembled to a portal mated via bolt hole concentric to a tapped hole and the tapped hole sketch references the clearance hole that the plate is mated to... etc. This would throw up flags in Pro/E, but SWX seems to live with it. That scenario seems like a mathematical nightmare and would result in an unstable model - If a user is oblivious to that and does it all the time, it could cause crashes - maybe?
I guess, if the software is going to ALLOW a user to run like that, it better be able to handle it... And don't get me wrong - I am not making accusations here - just exploring possibilities why some experience crashes so often and others do not.
For the record, I do a lot of injection molded parts, surfacing, top down design (save bodies, master model, in context part design, etc...) and assemblies with layouts and motion. (not just simple prismatic parts) I have a Dell M6800 and run Win7. I noticed that Paul Salvador is running Win8.1 - There's another variable. Best practices span more than just how your models are created. It spills over to your hardware and overall system configuration. I would even bet that your web surfing habits could affect your system stability. And malware / anti virus practices... on and on.
Great discussion and food for thought. Thanks.
I don't know about the others, but I was figuring all the lost time. I go days without a crash, so I feel pretty confident that the average time lost isn't more than 1-2 minutes per day.
Win8.1... yep, agree,,.. that is a problem for sure!
btw Nathan... what version of SW & SP are you using?
I'm a soloist like you - I have 2012 thru 2015 SP4 installed. I really don't feel that 2015 crashes any more than 2014 did (I am mainly using 2015 now, but also have a current project on 2013)
Like some of the others, I rarely crash. Maybe a couple of times a month, if that much and that's between a Dell desktop, a Dell M4600 and a SurfacePro3.
I'm also anal about my system maintenance:
I use ccleaner at least once/week to clean up my drive
I shut down my computers every night
I make sure that I'm running the correct graphics drivers
I do everything I can to keep IT the hell away from my work computers
Jeff Mirisola wrote: Like some of the others, I rarely crash. Maybe a couple of times a month, if that much and that's between a Dell desktop, a Dell M4600 and a SurfacePro3. I'm also anal about my system maintenance: I use ccleaner at least once/week to clean up my driveI shut down my computers every nightI make sure that I'm running the correct graphics driversI do everything I can to keep IT the hell away from my work computers
Jeff Mirisola wrote:
Thanks Jeff. I got a good laugh out of that one.
Hey Nathan,.. soloist... kewl, good to know!
Yeah, for me 2014 and 2015 are a coin toss.. each have their issues.
2013.. I have NEVER had any of my clients use it... they all skipped.
if you are really using 2.0 (I mean not 2.1) it's better start worrying about your data, because that release has a bug that will randomly kill your files beyond recovery.
Umberto Zanola wrote: if you are really using 2.0 (I mean not 2.1) it's better start worrying about your data, because that release has a bug that will randomly kill your files beyond recovery.
Umberto Zanola wrote:
Yes, I really am using sp 2.0. We went off subscription right after it came out, so I can't update until we get back on (hopefully in the next week or so; the paperwork has been turned in.) So far I haven't had any significant problems with it.
5-10 minutes per day, using SW-approved hardware. SW Pro 64-bit 2015 SP 2.1.
I do work very similar to yours from the sounds of it:
Nathan Rollins wrote:For the record, I do a lot of injection molded parts, surfacing, top down design (save bodies, master model, in context part design, etc...) and assemblies with layouts and motion. (not just simple prismatic parts) I have a Dell M6800 and run Win7.
Nathan Rollins wrote:
For the record, I do a lot of injection molded parts, surfacing, top down design (save bodies, master model, in context part design, etc...) and assemblies with layouts and motion. (not just simple prismatic parts) I have a Dell M6800 and run Win7.
I also am fairly old school and extremely diligent about my modeling practices, with fully defined sketches, avoiding circular references, and such. I've been using SolidWorks since the 99 version. I've also used a lot of the other major and minor cad packages on the market. I once was a SW reseller and and a trainer. So I've learned what I think are pretty good modeling practices over the years and currently manage and enforce these practices where i currently work.
So this is where my crashing issue is really bugging me. I am having the hardest time trying to track down what could be causing the problem. I've been doing everything I can to troubleshoot the issues on my own for the past year. Which is why I am only just now starting to approach the forums and (sigh) my VAR. The crashes are truly random. They will happen doing just about anything at any time. It seems to come in waves. I'll crash a lot for a period of time, and then it will just stop and I'll go hours or days without a crash.
On the hardware side, I'm running approved hardware, with approved drivers (currently a brand new Dell M3800 core i7 running Win7 x64, 16GB RAM, plenty of HDD space. I power down and start fresh everyday. But I do have to say, my crashing is much worse on this "new" computer. You can look at my profile to see the specs of my previous high-end desktop workstation.
Jeff Mirisola makes an interesting point below that I'll comment on, because all of my trouble shooting is leading me to seriously suspect something in the direction he is talking about.
Yes after everything I've been through this past year with these frustrating crashes, I am starting to suspect that something going on in the background at certain times that I'm not aware of. Or something to with the hardware.
I am very anal about system maintenance on my home computer.
The problem is, IT won't generally allow me to do that type of system maintenance which would mess with the registry such as running CCleaner. They also have a corporate version of Trend Micro and maybe other tools installed that they run scans with daily in the background, during the day while we are working. I've asked them before about disabling that while I'm working.
I'm to the point where I would bet money that SolidWorks would run way better on my home computer, even though it has far lesser hardware specs.
What I'm frustrated with now, is that I wish there was a way I could prove what I've been suspecting. But I'm not sure where to even begin with that since I neither know about nor have control over stuff they might be running in the background from time to time.
And I'm also terrified of getting my VAR involved because of how agonizing the process of dealing with them is. It takes an insane amount of time and effort to prove to them that even something minor really is a bug. Endless Rx recordings, descriptions, and hoops. I have nightmares at night about what it would be like to bring them something like "random crashing".
Update from 2014 sP5 to 2015 sp4 has been pretty disastrous for us. I would say we have at 20% downturn in productivity due to several crashes per day many with lost data (auto recover is seldom working despite setting to to every 5 minutes).
but we have worked on too many files now to revert to 2014...
Waiting until sp4 of a new release is supposed to avoid most of this kind of thing, and I've usually left it till at least SP2 in the past.
I have a forlorn hope that the soon to be released 2015 sp5 is more stable (there are some rumours that it is better, at least with the Win 10 upgrade as well).
I'm sh1t scared to go to 2106 sp0. Though I did see those carefully rehearsed demos at the launch event didn't crash...no way would any of our machines have run for that long without multiple crashes.
This software is a serious investment. VAR is no help at all with these numerous crashes which makes me think it is just normal for this release...
Gordon, I'm in the same boat. Definitely lower productivity now, but too many project done in 2015 now to go back to 2014.
I'm also going to say something that feels for some reason like it's a taboo thing to say...
But, in all the things I have been trying to figure out what might be causing some of the crashing, I have some possible evidence that it's the backup/recover function itself that is causing some of issues. I have turned it off and have seen what I perceive to be at least some reduction in the frequency of crashes. Still trying to figure out how to actually quantify it though.
Also, just for clarity, when I refer to crashing, I'm mostly talking about it freezing and never recovering no matter how long you wait.
We had to give up on pack and go to server locations, as well as using WPDM, because our IT jackass guy had our Symantec AV set up such that it blocked using them. It would kick back an error about not having permission to write to the location specified, or that the location didn't exist, when I, and it, most certainly did.
Be careful proving IT wrong. I did that years ago at a former company and had the most difficult time getting help from them after that.
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