I know , I know. But really. In education we are surrounded by macs . Can we just move forward and embrace.
I know , I know. But really. In education we are surrounded by macs . Can we just move forward and embrace.
Not thinking about just "running" the software. It would be nice if SW looked at the education stream in the light i.e.: Most students (almost 80%) are using a Mac these days. That is from grades 8-12++. Perhaps we should embrace the change and look at developing software that is MAC based and not just this virtual bootcamp concept.
Just a thought...
My advise would be to stop using Mac. Why would anyone think that was a good idea? You need to talk to your the people involve in your educational system.
Look at stats on an international level. Not every student is going out and purchasing a thinkpad. Not sure if you are directly involved in education, but from an answer like that, it says it all-
This is just a question, and not intended to turn into this Mac vs PC debate, but really, lets look at what the "new" generation is purchasing. It is not a PC from Best buy! If anything, they are lining up to use an IpadPro. directly sketching and implementing their designs from tablet to concept generation. Multiple devices and not just a single work station machine.
Shaodun...I do appreciate your contributions and expertise and have learned from you. I have never used a Mac and perhaps that has limited me (have friends that have and they all amazed at what I can do ) but I have always been involved in business and Windows has given me what I needed.
Scottet.. you may have put me in my place. Very well said but I just can't imagine using anything other that what I have. (Dell) I am not involved in education but I will look at the stats. I really had no idea.
What are the 'Stats' then Scottet? And more inportantly how many of these Macs being purchased by students are of CAD level?
SolidWorks doesn't support entry level PCs either.
For the software to be of a grade suitable for professionals (the ones that actually pay thousands every year to use it) it needs to support the latest technologies. High-end CAD machines are purpose built for the task, this is not something you can do with a consumer product such as Macs, atleast not for a competitive price.
It's not about money, not about thousands being spent. Its about growth, and market. I am just posing the question
" Most students from 9-12 and in University for that matter", are using Macs. Most students I teach at the Secondary level or University are using a minimum quality Mac Book Pros. Not HUGE in comparison to work stations. I know you can run vmware sure, or bootcamp like students do and it works, but man oh man, it would be nice if instead of just boot camping, SW would look at offering more. Autodesk is really beating them to the punch here.... I just want to Solidworks to win the battle as I am an avid user. Just posing the question as I am an educator in the trenches and one with many years in industry. Just a question......
Fair point Scottet. This has been a subject of much discussion over the years, with many potential solutions. One being a software as a service. Maybe this could be a solution that could work well in the education sector where education providers have their own servers to host student SolidWorks sessions. They could then have access to SolidWorks with minimal hardware requirements. Not to mention what OS they're running.
I'm currently a student at Brunel London. I would say 70% of us (industrial and product design) students have a Mac and then run windows on it specifically for solidworks, it is annoying. I understand that maybe a Dell pc is better for the software but generally speaking Macs are more appealing not only because of their design, but also their ease of use with other design packages. Plus probably the biggest appeal as a student Apple offer us a lot more in terms of discount, guarantees, and good support when buying things from the laptop itself to even having Microsoft programs such as word and excel for free.
I know a lot more students are taking to learn packages like Rhino because of this so I would of thought is was in the interest of Solidworks to work on creating a Mac friendly version.
When SW was first developed, it was the first widely available low-cost CAD that was designed native to Windows. (All others had started on other OS's.) SW had built-in ability to more fully exploit the Windoze environment, which none others had at the time. I don't forsee SW working to change that.
I realise this I'm just saying it's a shame from a student point of view and most of us moving to Mac for the reasons I said, most of us are starting to turn to Rhino
Guys,
Some great comments here. As a user who has used both Macs and PCs, Solidworks and other CAD packages, I think it all boils down to one question. What do most employers use? SolidWorks does not make their profits off of education level software and students only pay a small percentage of the actually cost of the software. If more companies were utilizing Macs as workstations, SW would follow suit to meet their needs. I have worked in many engineering and design settings and rarely is a Mac being used by anyone. In my experience to get the same hardware and performance from a Mac as an equivalent PC workstation you need to spend a lot more. Also with the frequency of improvements in computer components it is much harder to upgrade a Mac as opposed a PC. End of the day, if there was money in it, SW would do it. Autodesk is big enough to dabble in everything.
While Rhino is great for creating industrial designs, how is it being utilized for manufacturing, etc? Just curious.
Harry, as a voice that sounds like my students, YOU ARE RIGHT! Students are moving to Fusion / Alias / for form development and staying away from the bootcamp model. There is a reason why Autocad is available on a Mac. That movement really changed the generation gap. I would just like to see SW drive the bus, as apposed to getting run over!
Again, just a question or better yet " WHY NOT"? Learn from others to develop things that are innovative firsts. Instead of waiting, embrace the younger market and listen to their voices, before you become someone like Harry, who leaves school, changes and produces amazing products, and then has an industry voice and leaves to spearhead the development of Rhino into a platform that changes SW user perceptions. Again.... just a question.....
Nearly 100% of businesses in SolidWorks' market run PC. In order to be available for Mac, SolidWorks would have to stand up a second development team. There is no straightforward way to port an existing software to a new platform. You have to essentially have two teams implementing all functionality two times in two completely separate environments. I can just about guarantee you SW has looked at the issue and called it not profitable.
That's not the tail that wags the dog.
David, your the exact reason why I pose the question: You said "SolidWorks does not make their profits off of education level software"" Serious???
If you invest now, the market will change. If we take 70% of education and look at the machines / laptops they are using. All of a sudden if you want a design job, you gotta run a PC??? That doesn't make sense on all levels!
That is why I keep asking, embrace in future and the students decisions or in my thoughts, your going to get run over by the bus working with the students and "future" on it!!! Maybe SW should think faster before the Autodesk train takes all of your SW users with it, aka: FUTURE-
Scottet,
Sorry but I dont quite follow you. I understand that students are interested in Macs and use them frequently, but one could make the same argument about tablets ,laptops, and cell phones. Should we use a cell phone for CAD? I'm not trying to say "do not use Mac", they are pretty sweet, but the reality is that these systems exist in the school systems because someone else made the decision, not the students. I think maybe school systems should look to industry and emulate it, similar to what many colleges do. It feels like you are saying "we are teaching them to use Macs, so you should use Macs, even if it costs more and does not add value". Either way they will be using PCs until the cost of a MAC gets realistic for employers. Schools get those machines for a huge discount.
Dave
Scottet,
Also, you are pretty salty? No one will be running anything over, I can assure you. Seems like you have posted this question a few times with minimal feedback. Have you thought about taking this to SW Education? You clearly feel strongly about it. They are extremely responsive, maybe you can be an instrument for change?
Dave
Scottet Currie:
Most students (almost 80%) are using a Mac these days. That is from grades 8-12++. .....
I have been teaching Engineering Design at the college level for more than 20 yrs.
My students are not indicating to me that they are using Macs? Or if they are using a Mac it is most likely an iPad and they also have a Win machine for CAD work.
I can only think of less than 5 in the past 5 years who have come to me expressing a concern.
I do not recall any coming back from a job interview or after hire indicating we short-changed them on their education because our labs are Win based.
You might look into Autodesk Fusion 360 if you are interested in using a Mac for design, but it certainly isn't developed enough for my students who are paying upwards of 20k/yr tuition/fees/housing. They expect a professional level of preparation for their future.
Scottet Currie:
... Autodesk is really beating them to the punch here.... .....
How so? With what product?
It makes sense on many levels. Employers will not change their technology eco-system to suit a new-grads preference for over-priced hardware.
Once upon a time, students did their homework, looks what was relevant in their prospective industry, and covered those avenues to make themselves applicable to said industry. If you think you're going to learn whatever you want and then change the world to suit, good luck getting a job in today's climate. The design industry has never been one abundant with opportunities.
In terms of someone else made the decision not the students at my university they have few macs available and pc's for solidworks to run, however despite not having been taught to us Macs in any institution we all have one for our personal laptop, maybe we are just a victim of a good advertising campaign, I don't know. Tablets maybe it will move that way a bit with the new attachments available for them with graphics pads, keyboards and mouses, mobile phones are obviously way too small to do anything conveniently.
I don't think this is to argue what's better in terms of Mac or PC, my point is just that basically all students who do industrial and product design at Brunel use Macs and would probably be prepared to pay for a student package of solidworks (as we do with the Adobe software by monthly subscription). No one is saying go from PC to Mac. Just that maybe with this sudden divide in generation computer preferences it maybe be good for them to look at doing both platforms. It's definitely be useful for me and the other students I know.
Just one thought:
Install VMWare Workstation Pro 12 --> Install Windows Virtual machine --> Install SolidWorks.
" With support for Microsoft DirectX 10 and OpenGL 3.3, VMware Workstation 12 Pro enables and expands the type of 3-D graphics applications that can run inside a virtual machine.
"
Regards